Tips for jump turns in leather boots?

[Jlars13]

Wondering if anyone has tips or good videos to watch to learn jump turns for hitting steep terrain in leather boots.

Took my xcd setup inbounds today to get some practice turns in and hit some steeper terrain, I’m on Madshus M68s with NNNBC and Alpina Alaskas.

Was having a blast hitting blue and green runs, but then got a little cocky and tried to struggle down a black run, didn’t go great, ended up taking a tumble, losing a pole, and sliding about 80 ft down the run before self arresting. I was trying to do parallel turns and traverse the hill, but I failed to commit hard enough on the turn where I fell, and even the turns I ended up completing were NOT pretty.

I’m thinking jump turns might be smarter for this setup when it gets real gnarly steep. Anyone have good tips, pointers, or videos to watch to help me get my head around it? Would also appreciate any drills I could try to practice, since it feels a little dicey trying a type of turn I’m unfamiliar with on steep terrain.

And for anyone who’s planning to say “hey man, don’t push it, there’s a limit to the terrain you can hit on that setup,” I say look, these are my ACLs to ruin and nobody else’s.

[JB TELE]

I haven't tried jump turning yet, but want to learn it along with downhill kick steps.
Here is a video of someone doing jump turns in leathers.

[TallGrass]

Wondering if anyone has tips or good videos to watch to learn jump turns for hitting steep terrain in leather boots. ... And for anyone who’s planning to say “hey man, don’t push it, there’s a limit to the terrain you can hit on that setup,” I say look, these are my ACLs to ruin and nobody else’s.

Hold my beer and watch this...


Try Stem Christies for turns and be prepared to side slip a lot. In a variation, when you get your outside ski turned around and committed to going the other way, experiment with unweighting the inside ski to pull it parallel faster than if it was still grooving in the snow, then replant. Play with moguls like letting your inside ski ride up on it as the outside rides the rut around it, as well as cutting across them. Sooner or later, you'll have to work all parts of a mogul.

Also, in alpine your ski tips can be even more or less, but with leather boots you have to consistent terrain and good balance. Might want to experiment with staggering your skis a bit if doing a Stem Christie.

[Jlars13]

Hahaha that rules. If he can do jump turns in what look like freaking SAMBAS, I can do it in my Alaskas, with a little practice. Thank you for this!

[Rodbelan]

Hold my beer and watch this...

Wow, thanks for that one...

[lowangle al]

The jump turn is the quickest way to get your skis across the fall line. When the terrain is steep enough to really need one, there is no substitute turn. They aren't easy to master but they aren't that hard to learn. Start by doing one turn at a time. It may be a while before you can start linking them, but you can make it down the hill one turn at a time. With light boots the snow has to be soft enough to hold an edge when you land, so don't expect good results on boiler plate. You can practice them on less steep slopes to get the motion down.

They are a good turn to know for safety sake on steep terrain and should be learned early in your career if you plan to hit the steeps. They are a foolproof way to get your skis across the fall line. Unfortunately the landings aren't always foolproof. Like anything else they take practice, but they will serve you well.

[TallGrass]

tried to struggle down a black run, didn’t go great, ended up taking a tumble, losing a pole, and sliding about 80 ft down the run before self arresting. I was trying to do parallel turns and traverse the hill, but I failed to commit hard enough on the turn where I fell, and even the turns I ended up completing were NOT pretty.

I’m thinking jump turns might be smarter for this setup when it gets real gnarly steep. Anyone have good tips, pointers, or videos

Instead of turning, Side-Slipping is often used to get down or past a steep and or narrow section (too narrow to turn).

Take a look at this post,
https://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... 962#p54962

and the GIF @Lo-Fi made of it at
https://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... 150#p55037



(That whole thread may be a good refresher.)

While practicing that on greens and blues, also work on skiing and slipping Backwards. Note, many XC skis do not have rockered tails to ride up on top of the snow ala the front tips, but can do it on packed snow with out getting caught or submarine-ing

On moguls, the tails 'might' skewer a mound of snow making it awkward to get un-stuck or even fall backwards with a stuck ski, so remember to use Finesse (TM), it comes in both aerosol and gel form.

Once you can side-slip as well as ski backwards, try the Falling Leaf Technique. You'll often see Ski Patrol doing it. This is where you side-slip or ski across the slope, then stop and side-slip or ski backwards across the slope, repeat. One down side is doing this too long will fatigue one leg more than the other, but it is an effective way to get down to a "better spot to make a turn."

One other thing to keep in mind when trying Jump Turns in leather boots (especially in moguls), is the lack of support requires more "ankle muscle" to edge the skis properly, that is, when you land it's easier for the narrow ski to roll downhill and your downhill edge(s) to catch which usually trips the skier into a fall. Double cambered skis (high arch in the middle) exacerbate this.

If you get into double blacks or woods, the more techniques you can selectively and situationally apply, the better odds of saving your Three-Letter-Ligaments for another day.

[mca80]

Good post, @TallGrass. I will add that my recent ski instructor advised adding sideslipping to a regular set of drills to practice because of reasons besides, or rather in addition to, the utility you mentioned, in that it will help the muscle memory, feeling and technique in getting skis on edge and proper weighting and balance. The handful of times I have gone downhill in relatively soft-flexing leathers and skinny skis I have spent a little while doing this drill as well as getting in and out of tele stance going straight, parallel turns (well, oftentimes skids rather than carving turns), wedge turns, garlands, etc. I am tempted to think I don't need it but in actuality I believe I should be doing even more of this stuff starting out, and even as I continue to progress. Thankful for the advice on jump turns from everyone too, this was on my mind as well and thanks to OP for the thread, and will practice on some very short sections of hills in my neck of the woods.

[lowangle al]

Sideslipping is a good tool, but you still need a jump turn because sometimes you have to change direction. That's why you need to be able to do at least one turn in either direction.

FYI, if at the resort on a steep section with any powder or loose snow on it, sideslipping could scrape it off, ruining the slope for everyone after you. If you need to sideslip at the resort look for less challenging terrain. IMO

[mca80]

Good advice for practicality of it. I've been using it as a drill only where it is hardpack at resort and off to the side.