Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

It is like dancing, very artistic. Working on learning jump turns now, a skill that seems useful steep terrain on skinny skis and soft leathers.

timpete wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:11 pm

I’ve had same experience. I’m learning on light tele equipment with NNN-BC and I while I admit that my technique is a work in progress, small variations in snow conditions seem to change my abilities to drop a knee a lot. (Non icy groomers -> easy, consistent powder -> easy, pushed around heavy snow -> difficult, icy hard snow -> difficult)

...So I’ve been curious if going to 3-pin and/or a slightly beefier ski would help me. (I won’t give up leather boots, this is why I switched to tele in the first place, and I’ve been happy with how planted my feet feel on Alaskas.)

Similar experience, but even moderately steep groomers are hard for me. When I'm looking down a moderate slope, and theres no powder, it just seems like a herculean effort to make tight enough turns. I'm not sure if its even a practical thing to do since I see only people on heavy tele gear. My purpose of going inbounds was to practice, and I'm not quite sure what I should expect myself to do.

You probably want to go to a softer ski like @fisheater just mentioned. I've been trying out the Objectives, but I think a narrower ski might be easier. I'm going to try the sBound98's, but I don't want to wear out the fishscales.

I recommend more practice. There is no substitute.
Upgrading gear maybe initilally, but if you go back to old gear you will likely be in similar scenario. You cant go from novice to expert in one season, on light gear, but you can get a feel.

spopepro wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:38 pm

The other comments are good--but I'd also like to add that when skiing nordic backcountry skis like the ingstad or e-109 you have to *commit*. If you're not carrying some speed and really weighting them in the turns the center of the ski won't stay attached and you'll have that washing out feeling. In looser conditions it matters less because the deeper snow means the whole edge stays in contact even if you're not fully compressing the camber. In that case, your mental game can be more of a factor than anything physical.

Interrresting... missed this post at the bottom of the page. Thank you much.

I just had some clarity in my backyard. I'm definitely struggling to transition fully. Since I usually start on my "good" leg, I was blaming my "bad" leg, but the truth is that I usually don't transition well to either one. The transnordic 66's were smearing around nice in a couple inches of snow.

I hope that the mountain tommorow will be like my yard was today, and I might take the transnordic 66's again.

John Dee wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:21 pm

timpete wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:11 pm

I’ve had same experience. I’m learning on light tele equipment with NNN-BC and I while I admit that my technique is a work in progress, small variations in snow conditions seem to change my abilities to drop a knee a lot. (Non icy groomers -> easy, consistent powder -> easy, pushed around heavy snow -> difficult, icy hard snow -> difficult)

...So I’ve been curious if going to 3-pin and/or a slightly beefier ski would help me. (I won’t give up leather boots, this is why I switched to tele in the first place, and I’ve been happy with how planted my feet feel on Alaskas.)

Similar experience, but even moderately steep groomers are hard for me. When I'm looking down a moderate slope, and theres no powder, it just seems like a herculean effort to make tight enough turns. I'm not sure if its even a practical thing to do since I see only people on heavy tele gear. My purpose of going inbounds was to practice, and I'm not quite sure what I should expect myself to do.

You probably want to go to a softer ski like @fisheater just mentioned. I've been trying out the Objectives, but I think a narrower ski might be easier. I'm going to try the sBound98's, but I don't want to wear out the fishscales.

Interesting I'd been thinking I need a stiffer, damper ski (or at least heavier to have more inertia). The FT62 seems very light, and very soft, and is narrow. (Obviously I'm aware I don't want to go alpine stiffness for tele skiing.)

mca80 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:06 pm

Working on learning jump turns now, a skill that seems useful steep terrain on skinny skis and soft leathers.

@mca80 How are you doing with the skinny ski jump turns? Does it feel doable? What bindings do you have? You are brave to learn that!

I ski NNN-BC with red flexors. Thinking of a jump turn, with snow on top of my skis (on a BC slope), it feels it would be difficult to keep my skis aligned during the jump. I am afraid there my skis will have random tilted positions, when landing.

I have lately watched some jump turn instructional films on YouTube. Some of them tell that you need to keep your weight aggressively in the front, when accomplishing a jump turn. That seems easier to do with active bindings, and would probably be easiest with fixed heel alpine bindings.

I haven't practiced too much, but it seems do-able, albeit not pretty. And yes, skis not aligned and randomly tilted. I just got some red flexord but haven't been back to a decent sized hill in a while, will test them out in the coming week.

@tkarhu i am impressed with your dedication to Gamme, but it’s just a horrible ski to be learning how to jump turn.
First jump turns are quite easy and natural in their natural environment with to me is the equivalent of expert terrain at the resort, what many resorts rate as two black diamonds in the States. You naturally unweight as you complete the turn, with maybe just a bit of extra unweighting. The snap of the skis help that unweighting, and rotate the skis down the fall line. In deep powder on typical black diamond terrain, because the skis bend a bit more in the powder, you can use that snap, with some exaggerated unweighting to get a little air under your skis.
Thinking about it, I get a little air underneath my skis quite a bit. It only happens with a ski that bends into a turn. A Gamme is not it. I’ve seen a Nansen on snow, I think you could get the feel for it with a Nansen. However if I’m in terrain, or conditions, I need to jump turn, or need to put air under my skis to transition my turns, I want a single camber ski. That’s not to say, you couldn’t snap turns on a Nansen with air under skis on moderate terrain. That is saying, if you are on a Gamme, sized to kick and and tour, it will not bend in a turn. If the ski doesn’t bend, it doesn’t snap free underneath you when unweighting. That means you really would need to jump. That isn’t what a jump turn is.

@fisheater Thanks for the great insights! I might not be able to find out that by myself, with my limited experience of different skis.