Rabb 68 Questions: Boots, Waxing, and Skins

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lilcliffy
Posts: 4112
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
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Re: Rabb 68 Questions: Boots, Waxing, and Skins

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:12 am

Salto wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:19 am
I decided to go voile cable straight to ski. Took a while to make that decision. I also mounted pins 2 cm forward of the balance point. My size 46 alaskas looked a bit too far back.
I can't remember (and can't see with the binding on)- curious- is there a boot center mark on the Rabb?
I look forward to comparing these against my current skis: Karhu Guides (3-pin hardwire CRB) and Rossi BC90s with voile cable.
Very cool- looking forward to your comparison!
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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Manney
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Re: Rabb 68 Questions: Boots, Waxing, and Skins

Post by Manney » Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:59 pm

Nitram Tocrut wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:35 pm
I don’t ski steep terrain and very little hills in my backyard so I don’t want to fiddle with skins.
Nitram Tocrut wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:50 am
I am 6,1 and 210-215 pounds and I wonder if I have too much weight on the back of my skis and that renders them harder to turn?
You’re asking a lot of the Rabb. It’s a DH oriented ski (Asnes uses words like “slope”, “mountain”, “descent”, “steep”, “demanding terrain” in the product description).

Small surface area relative to your body weight. Not an issue on a hill. Slope provides the speed. On the flats or gentle slope, low soft camber, considerable side cut can work against you. Narrow center section of the ski presses down flatter than a pancake. Nose and tail edges of skis dig, resist as you try to rotate (not carve, which requires speed and turning to put the ski on edge without falling over). Tele turn involves a degree of edging and slope too. Along with weighting. Slope needed for that too.

The Rabb probably isn’t working based on a few factors. Wrong context, maybe at the edge of its bearing weight capacity. Asnes doesn’t list weight for its DH oriented skis. But weight may not be a critical factor on the steeps.

The weight, heaight thing is something I’ve been looking at in another thread. No firm conclusions or deep insights. Just running the numbers.

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... =40#p59733

Asnes doesn’t list weight range for the Rabb. The skis with weight ratings go to 90+ or 95+ kilograms. That doesn’t mean they extend to infinity. Most of the Asnes line seems tops out at about 200-215#. Loss of performance after that? Likely.

Need to run numbers for other ski makers. See if this is an industry thing. My guess is that it is something like that.
Go Ski



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Nitram Tocrut
Posts: 529
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:50 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada
Ski style: Backyard XC skiing if that is a thing
Favorite Skis: Sverdrup and MT51
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska NNNBC
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Re: Rabb 68 Questions: Boots, Waxing, and Skins

Post by Nitram Tocrut » Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:30 pm

Manney wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:59 pm
Nitram Tocrut wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:35 pm
I don’t ski steep terrain and very little hills in my backyard so I don’t want to fiddle with skins.
Nitram Tocrut wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:50 am
I am 6,1 and 210-215 pounds and I wonder if I have too much weight on the back of my skis and that renders them harder to turn?
You’re asking a lot of the Rabb. It’s a DH oriented ski (Asnes uses words like “slope”, “mountain”, “descent”, “steep”, “demanding terrain” in the product description).

Small surface area relative to your body weight. Not an issue on a hill. Slope provides the speed. On the flats or gentle slope, low soft camber, considerable side cut can work against you. Narrow center section of the ski presses down flatter than a pancake. Nose and tail edges of skis dig, resist as you try to rotate (not carve, which requires speed and turning to put the ski on edge without falling over). Tele turn involves a degree of edging and slope too. Along with weighting. Slope needed for that too.

The Rabb probably isn’t working based on a few factors. Wrong context, maybe at the edge of its bearing weight capacity. Asnes doesn’t list weight for its DH oriented skis. But weight may not be a critical factor on the steeps.

The weight, heaight thing is something I’ve been looking at in another thread. No firm conclusions or deep insights. Just running the numbers.

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... =40#p59733

Asnes doesn’t list weight range for the Rabb. The skis with weight ratings go to 90+ or 95+ kilograms. That doesn’t mean they extend to infinity. Most of the Asnes line seems tops out at about 200-215#. Loss of performance after that? Likely.

Need to run numbers for other ski makers. See if this is an industry thing. My guess is that it is something like that.
In a few words... total weight is not the factor. I was talking about weight distribution. But the eel thing is that I am not good enough :lol: Just wondering if the weight is shifted forward that will have an impact on how easy I can "control" the skis.



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Manney
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Re: Rabb 68 Questions: Boots, Waxing, and Skins

Post by Manney » Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:46 pm

Your Rabb is being used at its maximum weight capacity. Fully compressed by your weight. Reality is that the ski doesn’t have much camber anyway, typical of DH oriented skis. Moving the mounting point won’t change this. It will still be fully compressed on the flats. Ski is ~flat. Ground is ~flat. Skier weight is enough to fully compress the ski to the surface.

Compare this to a more cambered Xc/bc ski with some capacity to spare. Moving the binding changes where the pocket will be when skier weight is applied. There’s still a pocket. It might be 1/32nd inch above the snow when skier weight is applied equally to both skis, but it’s still there. So moving the binding mounting point determines how much weight the skier applies ahead, behind the pocket.
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Salto
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Re: Rabb 68 Questions: Boots, Waxing, and Skins

Post by Salto » Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:02 pm

Went resort skiing instead this weekend, but get to try on a short hit trip this coming week.

@lilcliffy , no markings at all in the Rabb 68. Balance points of skis were about 1/4 inch different.

Here are some pics comparing my other xcd skis. Again I mounted pins 2 cm forward of balance point due to my large boots. All my mounts in last 10 years are on touring tele skis boot center to ski center mark, so pins on bp is a throwback.

The Rossi bc90’s are pins to ski center mark. I can’t remember how I mounted the guides 15 years ago, but appear somewhere between boot center and pins on center. No idea about the e99s.
0DB972E9-10F9-467B-9E5D-4A1E1A5EF37B.jpeg
443ECD22-046A-48E6-971B-E83CA07F1437.jpeg



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Salto
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Re: Rabb 68 Questions: Boots, Waxing, and Skins

Post by Salto » Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:58 pm

Hi All - Reporting back on Rabb 68. I have now go about 40-50 miles on these skis. A mix between road approaches and good treeline and above treeline alpine ski terrain with 20-25 degree slopes.

I went voile 3-pin because I had them and have both Alaska 75 and Excursion Boots.

Alaska: Nice to tour, trail, and road ski in. Depending on grade, its pretty easy to rock good gorilla p-turns in difficult terrain and on limited width trails. On mixed snow above tree line, the Alaska with cable gave adequate support and was able to keep tele turns going in difficult snow, but not without some nervousness. On hard dense icey or windblown, I felt almost no improvement over Rossi BC90 or Guides. Skittish to say least.

Excursion: A little slower than alaska and not as comfortable, but still good range of motion and felt natural on the Rabb for more dedicated downhill pursuits. I just skied an area that is dominated by AT gear (rarely - or never see leather boots or xcd gear) with a 1.5 mile mild approach and another 1.5 mile of steeper but still low angle bowls. Snow was great 4-6" with nice base and the Rabb Excursion combo was heavenly. I was quite happy to be in the excursion over the alaska for the entire trip, up and down. In these perfect conditions, teleturn control felt 80-90% of Miejdo setup. Again, was stoked to have the option to switch up. Now if I could only find a leathers that gets close to an excursion.

Rabb (188) v Karhu Guide (185): I go the rabb to upgrade and retire my guides which are starting to come apart. Although I was hoping for a down hill ski in the Rabb, I find it only marginally better than the guide for downhill. What I do like better about the Rabb is the skinny waist and ability to get it on edge with the Alaska's and much better with the excursions. The Excursions never really ever commanded the Guides, I always had to finesse a bit to work the bigger Guides, on the Rabb the Excursions were in control. The new Rabbs are also much bouncier than my 15-year old guides, much more playful. Regarding touring, they are about the same. I am still learning to wax and keep getting sticky snow. I also think the Rabbs are less directional than the guides. Finally, I am 210 lbs so I am maxing out the Rabbs. I do really like the x-skin and find I can climb very steep terrain with the 58mm nylon skin.

Waxing: I suck at waxing, but going to keep trying. Keep erroring on too soft of waxes and clumping, but grip was good. Infact outgripped voile scaled skis on last trip. Easy to scrape off at top, so not a huge deal.

X-skins: I have only used they 58mm nylon, and they climb great, and much less drag and work than a full skin. I also bought 30mm mohair, but holding off till I lose my temper with wax.

Length: A 196 cm should be an option, this ski is so easy to turn, would be better for me anyway.

So, I have a pair of Skaget boots and explore bindings sitting in my closet and still not sure if I want to mount the Rabb with these, will likely keep experimenting before making the move.



User avatar
lilcliffy
Posts: 4112
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Rabb 68 Questions: Boots, Waxing, and Skins

Post by lilcliffy » Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:47 pm

@Salto
Thank you for the update!
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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