Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Ok, confined to “non-weight bearing” mode, with plenty of free time.
Doing research, gathering information, trying to understand.

Second time in 12 months that Meidjo 3 have “let me down.” But not gently.
I’m sensing a pattern here. Maybe certain snow conditions are more likely to cause a problem.
A bit of loose snow on an unconsolidated base.
So far, I have not had a problem on piste or in powder.
But have twice had serious injury with loose on top of unconsolidated.
Both times: low speed (<10 mph?), slight distraction, catch tip, ski slows down / stops, body keeps going, starting a rotation, …
First time (April, 2022, Mt Hood) resulted in bad sprain of knee that mostly heeled after a few months.
Second time, two weeks ago, resulted in fracture of fibula, requiring surgery with hardware (Open Reduction with Internal Fixation).

I’ve always skied the M3 with the lowest release setting.
I’ve come out of them a few times without incident, but also wasn’t aware of needing release in those situations.
I think most people know that the M3 doesn’t provide the same reliable release as an Alpine binding, but I think it’s misleading and dangerous to post the following on the Meidjo website:

CAN I RELEASE WITH MEIDJO IN TELEMARK MODE?
Yes, in case of fall, the release is guaranteed. It’s carried out laterally via the spring box.

.
(“Guaranteed” is a big word to use, but maybe something was lost in translation.)

I’ve gone through a whole range of emotions, including feeling pissed because I enjoy Telemark so much and am not sure what to expect for the future. I have found some comfort in the idea of switching to Alpine, which is not as fun as Telemark, but is still skiing…

I try not to fall into “coulda, woulda, shoulda,” “why me,” or “if only.”
It is interesting, though, that, in the time leading up to the incident, not much would have needed to change for this to not have occurred. Reminds me of that well known Good News, Bad New, Who Knows parable *.
Maybe I would have later died in a car accident if I had not broken my ankle, who knows?
(I’m not suggesting I believe that — just that “Who knows?”)

After I fell, I think I was in the worst pain I have ever experienced — I was screaming — can’t remember that ever happening.
I was all tangled up, and still in the bindings.
The main pain at that moment was from my left knee (it was my left ankle that broke).
Because of position and pain, I could not move to release bindings by hand, and if I had lost my poles, would have really been in a world of hurt. I was momentarily somewhat panicked by this thought.
Was able to use pole to release. Left foot looked pointed in not right direction. Was pretty sure I could not walk or ski out.
I had skied off the top of a mountain adjacent to the ski area and was about 50’ outside ski area boundary.
Called area Ski Patrol for assistance. Used AirFlare app on phone to send my location.
+ was having the app.
- was not having Ski Patrol # in my phone, which took time to navigate.
Patrol asked if I was able to move the 50’ to get back inside the ski area. There was never any direct convo but have the sense that, otherwise, I was looking at a 911 call and local SAR for evac.
I slide the 50’ — about 20 minutes later two guys show up and mummy wrap me in the sled to keep snow off me for the 20 minute ride back to the base area. They were great, but I couldn’t get the lead guy to break protocol and banter with me (since I’m wanting a break from grim reality of situation) — all focus and purpose, as it should be.
The next drama was with my wife (who picked me up at base area) as to whether I should go to emergency or wait for appointment at the clinic (but honey, emergency is expensive!).
I think the emergency curb crew might have been amused, they were certainly patient with me.
Emergency wins.
X-ray. Broken.
Doc is great.
Once diagnosed, one of first questions is “When was the last time you ate?”
That made me laugh.
Since we were headed back to home base in a few days, decided better course was to wait for surgery until I got home for continuity of care. Surgery 8 days after incident.
There was some lateral separation between the talus and tibia (maybe torn ligaments) that might have required two additional screws through the fibula to pull the tibia back in place (with longer recovery times required), but surgeon didn’t do that (assume unneeded). Will be curious how that turns out.
Will want the metal hardware taken out, but that is many months down the road, with its own recovery times (something like 6 weeks for holes in bone to fill in).​
Every case is different, so I really have no idea how this turns out.
I would never want to go through this again, but anyone who skis should know that something like this is a possibility.
Do I just say once is enough, and move on?
Switch to Alpine, with safer, more predictable release?
Just stick to light XCD on NNN-BC or Xplore and light boots?
I really have no idea at this point. It’s going to be one day at a time for a while…

*
There was once an old Chinese farmer who had a horse to plough his fields.

One morning he woke up to discover the horse had run away during the night.

Seeing this, his neighbour said, “That’s terrible. What are you going to do now?”

The farmer, who was a wise man, replied, “Good news, bad news, who can say?”

A couple of days later, the horse returned, accompanied by another horse.

This time, the neighbour said, “What great good fortune!”

The farmer’s response was the same: “Good news, bad news, who knows?”

The farmer gave the second horse to his son but soon afterwards, the horse threw him and he broke his leg.

Seeing this, the neighbour said to the farmer: “So sorry for the bad news about your son. Who’s going to help you on the farm now?”

To which the farmer answered, “Good news, bad news, who can say?”

A week later, war broke out in the province. All the able-bodied young men were drafted to fight. Being injured, the farmer’s son was spared.

The neighbour said, “What a relief that your son doesn’t have to go to war.”

Good news, bad news, who knows?” replied the farmer.
​

Wow Stephen, first my sincere condolences on your injury. I’ll add you to my list when I say my prayers (Don’t worry I don’t think the Almighty will hold it against you being on my list!)

Onto Telemark skiing, there is a supposed more reliable releasable system. Here’s a link to another forum. The Tran toe is supposed to be very reliable. Read the link, make your own decision. FWIW I’m thinking of trying the new Voile TTS system next season for chairs. They say the Trab toe piece is much more reliable, however you will need to “assemble” your own system.
Here is the link:
https://www.backcountrytalk.com/forum/b ... -in-on-tts

Good luck, we need you to keep dropping a knee, and posting here.

Bad news. Don’t like hearing about people getting hurt. Condolences from da up as we say here. Get well soon.

As for ski injury, been there… def not fun. What did the docs say about your ACL, MCL? They can take damage before the tibia pops. Simple or spiral fracture of the fib? Up top, or at the bottom? Were your bindings new, stock… or user modified in any way? Good tips contained in your accident report. We take lots for granted skiing… never thinking things could go sideways.

Thank @fisheater and @Manney.
Bob, I’ve been all over the Internet on this one, including some injury reports on backcountrytalk.com.
Lots of creativity over there trying to work out a release telemark binding (especially toe release, which I think might have saved me!). No one seems to have found the holy grail for Telemark release bindings.

Manney, it was left leg, lower end of fibula.
Sometimes there is no offset in the break, so surgery is not required. That was not the case for me.
When this happened, my immediate concern was that I had destroyed my knee (due to intense pain).
I’m amazed and thankful that there does not seem to be any detectable damage, at this point.
When I badly sprained my knee a year ago (similar fall), it left behind a Baker’s Cyst on back of the right knee.
Left knee seems to have no swelling or pain.
I’ll find out more in a week…

I’m sorry… that all really sucks.

I am interested in the long term on this one. Personally (and maybe morbidly) I’m interested in seeing how this all plays out. Back when release was non-existent/irregular tib-fib fractures were the most common on the mountain. After alpine release was improved and standardized fractures nearly went to zero, but now people tore ACLs (mostly through phantom foot). I’ve somewhat been ok with skiing non-release or at least non dependable release bindings because I’d rather fracture a bone then destroy a ligament… but I also know plating sucks and requires healing twice or three times.

I wonder if euro regulation will come for tele tech and AT bindings that claim a release. Ski shops who know their shit are still cagey about how they set and test release values for BC gear, I suspect because they know it’s a roll of the dice still.

In any case—heal up and stay positive. It will be hard. It took maybe 3-4 years before I could use my plated clavicle correctly. Don’t hesitate to access your full support system to complain, be sad, happy, or whatever. You’ll need it.

No swelling at the knee a very good sign. Maybe the fibula just gave the knee ligaments a good old stretch. Would explain the pain. MRI would provide conclusive evidence… might not be possible with all that metal in you atm. CT maybe.

No sense second guessing the binding. Fib fractures common in the sport, regardless of binding type. Read something about more common on shorter skis. Weird. Overall drop in injuries (ACL, MCL especially) after FIS phased longer skis out of competition. You want the link? Can pm it to you…

Dang, sorry. Well wishes. I know it’s depressing being injured or otherwise less than full healthy.

My wife spiral fractured the lower leg years ago on T4s, pins and Fischer Boundless. I had to ski out, got someone at the parking lot with On Star in their minivan to call 911. I didn’t have a cell phone. Then the sheriff rescue took her out on a snowmobile just about dusk. Whew! Sucked, but a full recovery.

Anyways a reminder to ski safe.

Not sure what to think about the Meidjo bindings but it probably doesn’t release as well as it could or should. OTOH I think sometimes people fracture legs in alpine bindings anyways? Anyone got stats?

None of the tele release bindings have seemed super trustworthy. I’ve used the Voile system, also got the now defunct telebry plates for my wife after the accident. Also, this brings up an advantage of floppy inadequate XC boots. One problem with designing the release on a tele binding is the forces change depending on how far off the ski is your heel at that moment.

I have switched to alpine or AT for resorts and steeper stuff at any rate. I actually never quite abandoned alpine. Tele for lower angle mixed terrain, non-releasable bindings, I feel like I’m hedging bets! Alpine is easier anyways for steeper terrain while tele and xcd makes more sense for mixed and lower angles.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!

@spopepro, I will update.

Clues.
I had lots of great runs in steeper terrain, deeper snow, with some falls and no sense of danger. In contrast, both serious accidents happened on gentle terrain with loose snow.
I think the gentle terrain gave a false sense of safety, but maybe more importantly, kept the skis in an orientation where they had more leverage on my legs.
(Incident at green dot.)

Skiing across the fall line… fell? Falling is one of the leading causes of fib fractures. Why I asked if it was a spiral, different mechanism of injury. Snowboarders often do it landing with rotation after a jump. Skiers fall. Explains ACL, MCL undamaged. If the knee was under a lot of torque, ligaments would have popped. Used to happen A LOT on skis 20+ years ago. Skinny, long put a lot of stress on knees. That, and rising speeds, led to FIS phasing them out of competition. ACL, MCL went down.

Tibia fractures went up at ~ the same time. Snowboarding had hit the scene… hard to untangle stats. Often classed as “ski accident” by hospitals.

Edit: tib to fib. Always mixing those two up. Lol

Sorry to hear that Stephen, I hope you have a full and quick recovery. I remember a thread on one forum or another that talked about releaseable bindings not releasing in slow twisting falls. It makes sense, if they were set to release at slow speed they would probably prerelease at high speed.

The last two times I injured my legs I doubt a releaseable binding would have helped anyway. The first was when I was skiing hammerheads, my first "active" binding. I was doing low speed hop turns, caught an edge and twisted my knee. On a less active binding my tips would have slid across the snow like they normally did instead of digging in. Having a little slop in the binding gives you a little buffer putting less stress on your body.

My second injury I hit a buried stump which caused my ski to pivot 90 degrees and then my ankle hit the stump. I broke my fibula. From what I read, it could have happened from the twist, but I remember the extreme pain when my ankle impacted the stump. I was in a cast for 8 weeks, but wasn't fully recovered for about 7 or 8 months. I was early 50's at the time.