This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips / Telemark Francais Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web since 1998. East, West, North, South, Canada, US or Europe, Backcountry or not.
This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips / Telemark Francais Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web since 1998. East, West, North, South, Canada, US or Europe, Backcountry or not.
This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
My wife was asking as I think she is getting more interested in learning how to telemark vs. using the 'power snowplow' going down hills.
She and I did both take a short, 1 hr lesson at Garnet Hill focused on backcountry skiing techniques but I thought it was too short, and not focused enough on what is really needed for wild snow.
I know one could try to learn this stuff at a resort but my fear is the Telemark instructors will teach PSIA techniques that may not translate well to skiing in the Backcountry on light skis, soft(er) boots, and variable, ungroomed snow. I might have taken this path myself if I thought it would have been more fruitful. I'll struggle and grapple with it myself - I think I get the idea enough to keep myself going in a good direction but she needs more fundamental instruction, and I'm not always the best person to teach her (for reasons other than lack of experience ).
If you have any friends who are decent BC tele skiers, tag along with them on a mellowish trip and observe what and how they ski and then, attempt to emulate. Get out of your comfort zone and figure it out. Lessons are useful to a certain extent, but getting out and practicing over and over is the best teacher. Practicing on groomed snow can help. IMO, lessons are fine for the absolute beginner, but the hard part requires repetition, practice, and patience. It usually ain't pretty in the early stages. Also, there's really no absolutes, meaning that good technique in one type of snow may not work at all in other types of snow. Teleman mumbles about that point quite a bit in his posts when he talks about riding the back ski when conditions are deep slow powder for example.
Just wait until spring and I'll show you guys how to do it in style at Tuckerman's when you'll come skiing with us...
In the meantime. have a look at CT's Get Out and Backcountry lessons... Sounds like a lot of fun for beginners...!
(I think it's a bit late for most events though...)
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\ "And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
Cool - well I was hoping for some more patient instruction with her - just so she can get the feel of the telemark. I've tried to explain to her how I attempt it, but she gets frustrated with me (husband/wife dynamic is not always the best for teaching).
I'm very much a book learner. I can pick up books or watch videos and go out and fumble around and kind of get where I want to go. She doesn't do that. I don't know why? I've not known many women who like to learn that way. She's also a teacher... so I think she wants somebody who understands the subject, and HOW to teach it, to teach her.
Does that make any sense? Garnet Hill may be my only option. Maybe they'll do a guided tour and give her pointers?
I push my comfort zone every time I ski - doesn't matter if it's flat or steep - I try something I usually wouldn't do... usually results in failure but I need to feel how the skis react in different snow and to different inputs. It think she is pushing herself too - I think she is finally starting to realize yeah... I can make it doing this, but it might be more fun if I do that... that being more advance, dynamic turns, etc...
PS Johnny - no way she is going to even go close to Tucks! That would just scare her and not help her skiing. She needs to learn how to do this stuff on mellower terrain before she can graduate. I do too! You won't see me skiing that ravine!
It's a tough problem with lots and lots of variables -
Husband - wife teaching dynamic is not usually a good one. I did learn how to parallel downhill ski by following my wife who has perfect form (her dad was a ski instructor on weekends at Squaw when she was growing up and they went every single weekend). Following someone and emulating is really a good way, but in backcountry it is tough unless you are really focused on getting out for turns. Recently I've noticed a couple of great forest slopes in places that I tour which would be good to yo-yo. I tend to go for a tour and my pals and I often go out or 8 miles in some groomed or semi-groomed stuff. Sometimes theres some backcountry occasionally but recently not all that much.
My advice is find a really good spot to yo-yo and practice.
I also think there are a few other things to be aware of based on my experience -
1) I learned to tele on Karhu XCD GT style skis by finding little pitches - like 25 yards sometimes or less) and just popping a turn on them. The berm beside the road you're skiing on sometimes can be good - anywhere - the key is to key in on the right pitch of slope and do it in an untracked bit of snow that is light, unconsolidated and deep enough to feel the turn and make the turn go slowly enough. Packed trails are no good for this.
2) Some time at a little resort on the beefiest stuff she has would probably help a little too since this provides loads of turning so you can practice a lot. Late season can be a good time to get some deals on lift tickets or just do a half day. Snow Ridge is a great place that is pretty cheap and not crowded so she won't get freaked by loads of people going by. If you're gonna fall some, may as well make it a spring day when it's sunny and fun and the snow is soft. Take some beers along - seriously - I improved my tele skiing downhill by a three step "program" - 1) I got some decent gear off a guy on craigslist - actual tele skis and boots. The three or four times I went before at resorts I did this on gear that was way too light - that's not much fun - you might think it is ok, but once you tele on real stuff you realize the difference. You need decent boots - I saw your post of your and her stuff - her Scott boots should be just fine - and decent skis. Good bindings help too. I have a pair of women's Fischer Voodoo telemark skis that are 170s - they aren't really shaped but are in great condition and have a cable binding. She'd be welcome to borrow them for a while to try for messing around on downhills as nobody in my family is skiing them. I think you have some wide skis too - probably wider than these and those would work well too. I find cable bindings help a bit too but I improved a lot without them before getting them. 2) I went quite a bit at our local place Toggenburg when my kids were in ski club on Thursday evenings - I just went and skied a lot by myself and pushed myself to tele steep stuff and especially moguls. I still take a WTF attitude and try to follow my kids down whatever or into glades - glades at downhill places are hard - moguls and trees combined. But I've improved on it and even skied a bunch over the weekend all by myself and found I liked some of it (mind you I paralleled it nearly all the time but it was great). 3) When my kids were in ski club and I skied those evenings I would ski hard for an hour and a half or two and then grab dinner and have two beers. I find skiing after a beer or two really loosens me up and I think that part of the "program" helped too.
3) I've tended to be on way too light XC gear lately (regular NNN and Fishcher 210 BC waxables) the last couple times out so I've had a lot less control compared to my regular BC rig, but still I think you can't expect perfection in always knowing how to approach a run or even making it every time. In my experience when conditions are packed at all or icy or both you have to be prepared for a bit of point and pray - the lighter the gear the more often that might happen.
Not sure if this will be of much help but maybe. We should try to get together to ski before all the snow is gone - maybe Winona Forest in the next couple weeks or Snow Ridge if you want.
I've tried to get her to yo-yo but she isn't that interested in it. She'll do a few runs, and then get bored and want to go 'ski'. She really doesn't like anything about dh skiing - she's a Nordic skier through and through... I'm not sure how that happened, but it did!
I was actually thinking of trying to get her to Woods Valley OR Oak Mountain in Speculator. They are both cheap and have a lot of easy runs. Snow Ridge might be too steep and intimidate her - I know it sounds crazy but she'll dig in her heels and say no way if she gets it in her mind it's beyond her skill.
Anyway, none of this really gets her any instruction - I need someone to get her to feel confident in using the boots and skis she has. She's come a long way but she wants to know the subtleties of how to make a turn other than a snowplow turn. I might just bite the bullet and see about a Telemark lesson somewhere. I need to ask around and see who is willing to break the PSIA brainwashing and revert back to teaching how to ski on something other than NTN.
This is why I like the Nordic centers because they actually focus on XCD techniques. What they lack are lifts and long runs.
Garnet Hill has a couple instructors who are really into BC Nordic Skiing - I need to have a chat with them and see what their options are beyond just a basic 1 hr lesson. She actually specifically asked to go back there for a lesson, but I wanted to see if there was anything else.
As far as skiing we'll see how the snow goes... I'm headed out to the Adirondacks this weekend, might be the last good weekend at low elevations as the foreseeable forecast is temps in the 40s and no new snow.
What's going on in Winona Forest? How much snowpack? What kind of trails? PM me some details, I might be interested end of this month. Wife might be done with skiing after this weekend but I could keep going!
You know, I'm not convinced she would wreck her XCD style by learning some on a true downhill tele setup in a resort. True, the turn initiation and such are different, but the better you get at turning, the better you can adapt to any ski and the conditions you are in. A beefier downhill setup allows for sooo much control and stability, so the skiers can focus that much more on learning the technique rather than worry about a crash.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM
I get that it might help... BUT - when I tried that with Alpine skiing it didn't work.
She hated it, she injured herself, and she has now renounced anything to do with it. I'm telling you... it's not as easy as one might think.
Myself OTOH - I should probably do as you say. I don't have a ton of interest in it now or as a future part of my skiing, but my concern is skiing on modern shaped skis and stiff boots seems just like Alpine skiing to me. In fact I don't see why I couldn't just jump on a NTN, shaped ski setup and ski just like I normally would on modern Alpine skis?
I wish I could turn back the clock a bit - and I've even read this from modern Tele instructors but if your goal is XCD and such, you should seek out an instructor who was telemarking AND teaching back before shaped skis and plastic boots became the norm.
One other issue I have with resort instructors is their goal is to teach you how to ski on a black diamond. I don't want to ski on a resort black diamond. The equivalent backcountry advanced terrain is much different.
I'm not quite sure but I'll ponder it over the summer. The best bet for me would be to ski with someone like oldschool who is a better skier, and went through some progression of Telemark gear.
MikeK wrote: I know it sounds crazy but she'll dig in her heels and say no way if she gets it in her mind it's beyond her skill.
It is an obvious problem when someone won't go beyond their skills when attempting to master something they are not good at. How do you ever advance your skills if you don't get out of your comfort zone? Maybe she's simply not interested in getting any better and is happy at the level of skill she is already at.
Maybe I phased that incorrectly... but what I meant was a resort with milder runs would be enough of a challenge, probably mentally more so than physically. I have to keep in mind that big steps aren't the way to get her to enjoy the D in XCD - make sense? I've already had some issues on some trails where she gets overwhelmed and struggles, and now is hesitant to try again... I need to gradually make things more difficult and then let her resort back to easier stuff so she can see how much she has progressed. I'm learning too - by no means am I tooting my own horn saying I do it all better than she does or don't have trepidation in certain situations, it's just a delicate process.
I've not been to Snow Ridge but I have a feeling I get there terrain from the maps and reports. It's generally a pretty consistent, steep pitch all the way - not much middle ground... but great for when they have 4' of lake effect powder I'm sure.
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