Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Hello guys, I’ve had some private questions about F1 and F3. Since I’m a rank beginner I guess I can answer beginner questions.
First a photo of an F3 You will see the F3 has 3 buckles. That and reviews say it is a stiffer boot than the F1 are the differences I am aware of.

Now a photo of my F1 Race Notice it’s a two buckle boot, but also when the ski is in walk mode, as in the photo, the top buckle is open. This means one latch and you have full range of motion and the top buckle is loose.
I believe that function is common to the F1

However in ski mode the cuff latches to the heel
The big difference between the F1 and the F1 Race, is that the F1 Race lacks a hard plastic tongue. If the photos are placed according to plan, you now know what I know, which I admit isn’t a whole lot!

How do these boots ski comparatively? And can you say anything about weight? The F1 Race looks like a stripped down F1 (removed the tongue) but I bet there's more to it. And the F3 looks like a completely different boot or is it just a completely different color with few changes other than that?

As you know I'm really interested in the next-gen light-weight Tele boot and am willing to go to the previous-gen light-weight Tele boot to get it. Even though I did read somewhere else that the F1 isn't a Tele boot at all but a randonee boot??? Internet searches for the Scarpa F1 are a bit problematic as there's a current production F1 and search engines are far more about driving advertising than providing useful information so you mostly get the current F1 which is NOT a Tele boot at all.

Other than TT this is the most useful article I've found --> https://wildsnow.com/1042/scarpa-f3-is- ... big-tours/

I've been (slowly) working on a thourough explainer of the F1 & F3, though it's not ready for prime time. Until then, here is a list of weights and cuff heights for a bunch of Scarpa tele(-ish) boots that I own.

TX Pro: 1910g 12.6"
TX: 1779g 12.6"
T2X: 1600g 11.4"
T2: 1629g 10.4" ('98-'99 iridescent blue)
F3: 1554g 11.6"
F1: 1342g 11.7" (last bellow'd version)
F1 Race: 1190g 11.8"
F1 Carbon: 1003g 12.0"

JohnSKepler wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:51 am

How do these boots ski comparatively? And can you say anything about weight? The F1 Race looks like a stripped down F1 (removed the tongue) but I bet there's more to it. And the F3 looks like a completely different boot or is it just a completely different color with few changes other than that?

These are great questions. Indeed, the F1 Race is not just an F1 without the tongue. It also has thinner Pebax which gives it a softer feel. Some people, myself included, think the F1 is too stiff for telemark and the F1 Race is just right. The F1 Race is a bit lighter but also a bit less durable for this reason. The F1 Race (and seldom seen F1 Carbon) also came with thinner liners out of the box, which made them fit differently. Of course, in a 15 year old boot the liner has probably been replaced, but it's worth noting if you have an F1 Race that doesn't fit right. Medium volume Pro Tour or Tour Wrap liners swap in nicely.

The F3 looks similar but is a different mold, kind of like a blend between a T2 and Laser. I haven't seen this written elsewhere, but my experience tells me it has a thicker but softer Pebax blend than the F1. I find that this gives the F3 excellent telemark characteristics and durability, at the expense of some additional weight.

You are correct that the F1/F3 were developed as AT boots with bellows, not as telemark boots. I think this explains the stiffness of the F1, and the lack of durability in the F1 Race. Personally I think they stumbled upon an awesome telemark boot design with the F3, though it wasn't intentional.

Listen to everything @jtb says.

jtb wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:02 pm

Indeed, the F1 Race is not just an F1 without the tongue. It also has thinner Pebax which gives it a softer feel. Some people, myself included, think the F1 is too stiff for telemark and the F1 Race is just right. The F1 Race is a bit lighter but also a bit less durable for this reason. The F1 Race (and seldom seen F1 Carbon) also came with thinner liners out of the box, which made them fit differently. Of course, in a 15 year old boot the liner has probably been replaced, but it's worth noting if you have an F1 Race that doesn't fit right. Medium volume Pro Tour or Tour Wrap liners swap in nicely.

I'll add that the F1, F1 Race, And F1 Carbon all used the same shell size (BSL) for a given modopoint size labelling, with progressively thinner liners. This makes sizing online kinda tricky. For example, I wear 28.0 in most Scarpa boots. The 28.0 regular F1 fits me great. The 28.0 F1 Carbon is huge on me; a 27.0 actually fits perfectly (the liner is really that thin). The F1 Race is somewhere in the middle. 28.0 fits but is quite sloppy. For the record, while 27.5 exists, functionally it is the same as 28.0, same shell, maybe some tricks done to the liner to take up a little more space.

jtb wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:02 pm

The F3 looks similar but is a different mold, kind of like a blend between a T2 and Laser. I haven't seen this written elsewhere, but my experience tells me it has a thicker but softer Pebax blend than the F1. I find that this gives the F3 excellent telemark characteristics and durability, at the expense of some additional weight.

I agree with this assessment of the plastic formulation. I'll add that the F3 appears to have shared molds with the TX2 tele boot. Side-by-side they're identical, except one has a duckbill and one has tech fittings. I measured the T2X at 46 grams heavier than the F3, weight that can be attributed to the duckbill and extra rubber.

Thanks @bobbytooslow, it will be interesting to see the finished “explainer.”

Thanks BobbyTS and jtb... this is all awesome.

I'm surprised a bit I guess about the weight of the TX. Internet lore has suggested it's an NTN T2X... but the weight suggests otherwise.

I agree that the F3 and T2X shells appear to be very similar apart from the toes, but the liners are very different. The T2X (or at least the red ones I bought in 2009) have an overlap liner, while the F3 liner has a tongue. The result is that the F3 flexes forward much more easily IME, and also fits (me) better, but YMMV with fit. I *do not* like overlap liners, and disliked the fore/aft stiffness of the T2X for touring; I replaced the stock very stiff tongues with modified Excursion tongues which helped somewhat but really I never got on with those boots, largely due to the overly pointy toe shape and resulting long term left big toe numbness. The F3 gave no foot trouble, and the flex (with AT bindings) was much better than with the T2X. I'm hoping to try the F3s with TTS bindings next winter here in Australia, and will report back if this happens. It'd be nice to think that Scarpa might one day release an updated NTN-ish and Meidjo-compatible boot with AT-like ankle flex for touring but I'll believe that if or when I see it...

satanas wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 11, 2023 8:30 am

I agree that the F3 and T2X shells appear to be very similar apart from the toes, but the liners are very different. The T2X (or at least the red ones I bought in 2009) have an overlap liner, while the F3 liner has a tongue. The result is that the F3 flexes forward much more easily IME, and also fits (me) better, but YMMV with fit. I *do not* like overlap liners, and disliked the fore/aft stiffness of the T2X for touring; I replaced the stock very stiff tongues with modified Excursion tongues which helped somewhat but really I never got on with those boots, largely due to the overly pointy toe shape and resulting long term left big toe numbness. The F3 gave no foot trouble, and the flex (with AT bindings) was much better than with the T2X. I'm hoping to try the F3s with TTS bindings next winter here in Australia, and will report back if this happens. It'd be nice to think that Scarpa might one day release an updated NTN-ish and Meidjo-compatible boot with AT-like ankle flex for touring but I'll believe that if or when I see it...

That boot weight wise would be comparable to an F-3. With T-2 flex, and maybe F-1 range of movement it would be a winner!
Nice Telemark flex for me is really important. Obviously that boot wouldn’t have F-1 ROM without at least undoing the power strap, and opening the top buckle. Doing that it just may have the ROM!
I guess Telemark is not dead!