Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

So I feel very comfortable skiing anywhere, but I've become more interested in the technical and efficiency side of skiing. I'm interested in input and thoughts about skiing fundamentals at any level really, they all apply.

Another thing to add is that I've actually converted to tele from alpine. So another angle to look at this from is how the technique contrasts from alpine (other than the obvious).

What are some common struggles? What makes an efficient turn? What's old-school and new-school? How to adapt in mogals, powder, ect.

Two cents welcome.

Thanks,
Mr T.

If you're into technical stuff, you should really have a look at Ron Lemaster's book Ultimate Skiing. From carving to boot fitting, it brings ski physics to another level...

As for tele, it's not that much different, just different muscles...

Yesterday I discovered what I call "lazy telemark".

It happened to me after I really worked on my lower and upper body movement during carved AND slarved telemark turn, and only after I skied on Movement Mosquitos for a day. They have 14m radius, quite unusual - even shocking - for me (used to ski on classic, not shaped skis), but they taught me how to change edge - and thus lead foot - real quick.

So, it goes like that:

• You face downhill
• and then You do what You always do with Your lower and upper body, inc. hands,
• so the inclination and/or angulation occurs, so the edge catches the track and the turn starts,
• now just let the NTN binding springs do the job - relax by dropping to telemark position, but instead of using both legs "separately", You imagine that You have one "doubled leg", so that will instantly give You 50/50 mass distribution (a good thing);
• so now Your skis will effortlessly go under Your body (as dictated by ski sidecut radius) till You'll feel that it's time for the next turn,
• then You just easily initiate the next turn with Your lower body (angulation/inclination, or else You'll crash),
• and - magically - the legs will follow by itself: the edge will release, engage, then the lead will change - just don't resist it You'll feel how the binding compresses the boot bellows - just let it flex.

Sensation will be as Your body is like a puppet master, when Your legs are like a puppet.
The turns will be as tight as ski sidecut radius dictates.
The edge/lead change will be FAST.
Entire motion will be fluid.
I was told it's beautiful.
You'll feel freedom.

All spare attention (and believe me, lazy telemark will give You lots of it) should be spent to trajectory selection (mainly, moving obstacle a.k.a. plowing alpine "skiers" avoidance), music enjoyment (Dome of the Rock was used) and landscape observation.

Regarding legs, force exerted with leg muscles will be absolutely minimal (only to deliver 50/50 pressure in highly relaxed telemark position, that is). The one most important thing w.r.t legs in lazy telemark is You gotta pay close attention just to keep both skis absolutely parallel, or else You'll eventually (tm) crash (given some bumps). And that is all! See, other than keeping the skis parallel, it's about relaxing and letting them (Your legs) do what they want (they want to telemark, You knew that), and not about controlling them. I'd say that even lower body control was specifically attenuated, not only leg control.

Does this make any sense to You?

Then goes level 2: when You want to do some wider GS-like turns, or the speeds are huge, You should carefully exert just a tad more force to keep Your telemark position without releasing the edges or changing the lead, but do it gradually (!!!) - so You should be able to tell that Your leg muscles are going from "standby" (let's call it 0%, despite technically You exert some force to maintain telemark, so it's not 0%) to, say, 10% of power, and so on. Concentrate on keeping Your skis parallel, maintaining 50/50 weight (telemark position will maintain itself automagically) and keeping that "puppet master" feeling.


p.s. lazy telemark was tested in "2' of soft little bumps over hard groomed/grey ice" conditions, boots were Scarpa TX Pro 27 in NTN Freerides (blue springs @2.5) on Armada TST 192cm (19m radius). I'm 190cm/78kg w/o gear, was riding with not-so-light Blue Ice Yeti 60 pack full of headlamps, skins, snacks, thermoses and Primaloft. It even had K2 padded double ski bag rolled.

TODO:

• Test with 14m radius skis;
• Test with 27m+ radius FIS GS/DH skis;
• Test in powder;
• Test on double blacks - no snow there yet ;-(
• Test with lots of spring preload;
• Test with green springs @ 1;
• Test in bigger, irregular bumps - can be painful;
• Develop better physical ability to confidently test in lower stance;
• Try to test w/o wearing the pack - I doubt I can do that
• Test with +14mm and/or -14mm binding adjustment;

I do not believe this "lazy telemark" dance can be experienced while You do not have relaxed (but watchful) state of mind, good edge control and Your upper and lower body dialed in. You should let it happen, I believe You can't force it. I doubt it can happen when You can't confidently tele-carve yet. I also doubt "catchy" skis (like, say, older Volkl Mantra) will allow You to. Can't say anything about 75mm gear, but the word is that it is sloppy, and hence worse for keeping Your skis parallel.

p.p.s. In 24 years of alpine skiing I never felt so... natural.

Initiating the turn with the lower body is the key. If it feels natural, then you sure are doing the right thing!

NTN, The binding for Lazy Telemarkers (tm)

(Sorry I couldn't resist... )

To Bogon,

I really appreciate your input here, you brought up some killer stuff.
Lazy skiing as you called it, is a great way of saying efficient skiing if I understand you correctly. Letting the shape of your skis and the springs in your bindings (or not) do the work, has been essential for me to keep up my pace.

so the inclination and/or angulation occurs, so the edge catches the track and the turn starts

Great thing to mention. One issue i have is that i jump the gun on my lead change. I try to get in my next turn before I'm done with the one I'm on. Basically what happens is I'm in a bad spot with my edges when angulation/inclination starts. I'm experimenting with the flattening of my ski while I'm lead changing. This feels way more natural and effortless for me personally. It gets me really to lay my edges down, or since my ski is flat, use more rotary in my turn.

legs "separately", You imagine that You have one "doubled leg", so that will instantly give You 50/50 mass distribution (a good thing);

The equal weight distribution is definitely on the telemarkers checklist. I think really steering will that back leg needs to be something we do too. If you don't do either one, you'll just have this limp back leg that flutters around in the snow behind you. As a previous alpine skier, i sometimes break the 50/50 rule when doing my lead change/linking my turn. I when i extend, i temporarily shift my weight to my front ski, and then re-weight my back ski again when transitioning back into my flexing. This is a no-no. The pressure on my skis changes and causes my turn shape to be uneven. Also weighting that front ski for a second gives me an 'exposed' point, where my balance is too far forward and i could potentially fall on my face in bumps, crud, or powder. I need to make sure i feel the pressure on my back foot building as i move into my tele turn.

- just don't resist it You'll feel how the binding compresses the boot bellows - just let it flex.

There was this guy i ski with, he is originally from new york(you can really tell). Anyways, he gave me a two cents i thing is extremely valuable. in summary he said 'commit to the fall line'. There are a lot of silly things people do when their fearful of going down hill. They resist the fall line. By relaxing and resorting to what you know will make for the most fluid turn, I believe you save energy, ski with a greater degree of performance, and you look pretty.

Thanks,
T

TeleKräusen wrote:i jump the gun on my lead change. I try to get in my next turn before I'm done with the one I'm on. Basically what happens is I'm in a bad spot with my edges when angulation/inclination starts.

You can try to drill "delayed lead changes" as well as monomarks (they never hurt, even if it's just for giggles, but they train Your motor memory w.r.t. what actually does the turn).

Cause it goes like

one - two - three *
body - edges - lead
(pole) - (turn) - (change)

and not like "one - two" with counter-rotation in alpine technique, and "delayed lead changes" drill trains You to distinguish between two and three IME.
Just for dog's sake don't make it three - two

Basically I try to mimic Urmas when I have to teach someone how to telemark (despite I'm noob, they still ask).
And Urmas said "delayed lead changes".
And he knows what he's talking about (much better than me), and it works.

TeleKräusen wrote: 'commit to the fall line'. There are a lot of silly things people do when their fearful of going down hill. They resist the fall line. By relaxing and resorting to what you know will make for the most fluid turn, I believe you save energy, ski with a greater degree of performance

Well, it's skiing down the hill after all - no wonder it works
But it is hard to actually make someone commit. The fear is great factor for most.

I cannot say that I'm succeeded in letting someone appreciate the fall line yet, but I have my ambitions, and it's ain't over yet

..and c'mon, i'm just a tele-noob myself.

[*] the intervals between one, two and three are arbitrary and not at all constant.