Hey guys, this is my first post, so let me know if I'm in the wrong part of the forum.
But I was wondering if anyone had any insight on the new NTN bindings from 22 Designs, the Outlaw? (I did a quick forum search for 'Outlaw' and only found some music video.) Anyone have any experience skiing on these in the beta test and can compare them to Rottefella Freerides? If not, feedback on the Freerides would be appreciated as well.
(I have been on Black Diamond O2s the last two seasons and bought a pair of Freerides this summer from Backcountry.com, but now I'm considering returning them and getting the Outlaws. The plan was to put a mounting plate on the Icelantic Keeper SKNYs that I got a deal on from eBay and possibly eventually get a powder ski in the $250 range, so I could swap skis when the conditions allowed. I ski predominantly trees at Burke Mountain and Jay Peak in VT, but there are usually 3 or 4 powder days that could be worth it.)
Thanks in advance.
22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
Re: 22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
Sounds like you're committed to NTN, and if that's the case, go with the Outlaw. Rotte's NTN bindings either break a lot (Freeride) or spontaneously pop into tour mode (Freedom):
http://www.backcountrytalk.earnyourturn ... ht=freedom
That doesn't mean it happens to everyone and lots of people are still on their first pair of Freerides. But, it has happened to enough, and continues to happen.
By my avatar, it's obvious that I don't use any of them, though I have demo'd nearly all of them, and I've heard only good things about the Outlaw. But, last year was its beta testing year and there were issues that 22D worked through. This is the first year on the market, so it is possible or even likely that issues will arise. 22D, however, is awesome and very responsive. The Axl binding is fantastic, albeit somewhat heavy.
http://www.backcountrytalk.earnyourturn ... ht=freedom
That doesn't mean it happens to everyone and lots of people are still on their first pair of Freerides. But, it has happened to enough, and continues to happen.
By my avatar, it's obvious that I don't use any of them, though I have demo'd nearly all of them, and I've heard only good things about the Outlaw. But, last year was its beta testing year and there were issues that 22D worked through. This is the first year on the market, so it is possible or even likely that issues will arise. 22D, however, is awesome and very responsive. The Axl binding is fantastic, albeit somewhat heavy.
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Johnny
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:11 pm
- Location: Quebec / Vermont
- Ski style: Dancing with God with leathers / Racing against the machine with plastics
- Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, XCD Comps, Objectives and S98s
- Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska XP, Alfa Guards, Scarpa TX Comp
- Occupation: Full-time ski bum
Re: 22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
The Outlaw is an awesome binding! We all love 22D products, and I'm sure this one is no exception.
But at 400$ USD for a 4lbs binding with no special features, well, I guess it's cool, but not for me. I would go tech for that price... It's the perfect product for the rich west coast babyboomers from Backcountry Talk though...
Just wait until you see the upcoming NTN binding from Bri7... It will destroy all competition...
But at 400$ USD for a 4lbs binding with no special features, well, I guess it's cool, but not for me. I would go tech for that price... It's the perfect product for the rich west coast babyboomers from Backcountry Talk though...
Just wait until you see the upcoming NTN binding from Bri7... It will destroy all competition...
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
Re: 22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
Ouch.
Well, the comparison was to NTN Freerides, and the Outlaws are price comparable, if not cheaper.
Skiing is not a cheap sport, period. NTN bindings are no doubt on the upper end of the specturm. Voile Hardwire is on the lower end, but it ain't cheap. NNN-BC, Alpina boots, Fischer skis -- it ain't cheap either. It may be cheaper than other stuff on the ski mkt, but that's it.
Well, the comparison was to NTN Freerides, and the Outlaws are price comparable, if not cheaper.
Skiing is not a cheap sport, period. NTN bindings are no doubt on the upper end of the specturm. Voile Hardwire is on the lower end, but it ain't cheap. NNN-BC, Alpina boots, Fischer skis -- it ain't cheap either. It may be cheaper than other stuff on the ski mkt, but that's it.
Re: 22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
The latest iteration of the freeride (black ones) has had very few failures in contrast to the orange versions. I think I'm on year 5 of my blacks w/Crispi Evos with lots of days and lots of in/out (patrol), and they're still going strong.
If I was just starting in the NTN world now, I'd look hard at the Outlaw, but personally I'd rather catch them on year 2 of normal production, considering their beta testing pretty much saw breakage of the same part across every beta binding (step-in piece), and don't know that they really got much testing in on the new parts as their beta program started pretty late in the season last year. That being said, 22D is a great company and will take care of you, but doesn't mean you won't potentially be out of a binding for a few weeks waiting on parts.
As far as pros/cons between the two, the swap plate with the freerides is nice if you're going to run a quiver (but that can also be done with inserts), but the swap plates are quicker. You can also adjust the binding +/- 1.5 cm with the freeride plate if you want to tinker with binding location. I would assume the lateral edge control is probably a toss up between the two (which is phenomenal btw - compared to any 75mm binding I've ridden - Bishops might be close, but never got the chance to try one). The freeride has release designed in (sort of), but it's dependent on how high you pre-load the springs (I've come out once in 4 years, and it was the only time I truly wanted to come out). The outlaw has an adjustable activity level (I think) which will let you tailor it to your flavor, and the outlaw is likely just more burly all-around. If you're touring the outlaw wins in the range of motion category, and should be mostly frictionless at the pivot, whereas the freeride still has a little resistance in the free pivot mode. And as far as the heel, nothing beats 22D's hammerheel for simple functionality, but they're kind of bitchy if you're using inserts and swapping them between skis.
If I was just starting in the NTN world now, I'd look hard at the Outlaw, but personally I'd rather catch them on year 2 of normal production, considering their beta testing pretty much saw breakage of the same part across every beta binding (step-in piece), and don't know that they really got much testing in on the new parts as their beta program started pretty late in the season last year. That being said, 22D is a great company and will take care of you, but doesn't mean you won't potentially be out of a binding for a few weeks waiting on parts.
As far as pros/cons between the two, the swap plate with the freerides is nice if you're going to run a quiver (but that can also be done with inserts), but the swap plates are quicker. You can also adjust the binding +/- 1.5 cm with the freeride plate if you want to tinker with binding location. I would assume the lateral edge control is probably a toss up between the two (which is phenomenal btw - compared to any 75mm binding I've ridden - Bishops might be close, but never got the chance to try one). The freeride has release designed in (sort of), but it's dependent on how high you pre-load the springs (I've come out once in 4 years, and it was the only time I truly wanted to come out). The outlaw has an adjustable activity level (I think) which will let you tailor it to your flavor, and the outlaw is likely just more burly all-around. If you're touring the outlaw wins in the range of motion category, and should be mostly frictionless at the pivot, whereas the freeride still has a little resistance in the free pivot mode. And as far as the heel, nothing beats 22D's hammerheel for simple functionality, but they're kind of bitchy if you're using inserts and swapping them between skis.
-
Johnny
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2256
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:11 pm
- Location: Quebec / Vermont
- Ski style: Dancing with God with leathers / Racing against the machine with plastics
- Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, XCD Comps, Objectives and S98s
- Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska XP, Alfa Guards, Scarpa TX Comp
- Occupation: Full-time ski bum
Re: 22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
I'll get my hands on a pair one day for sure... But not at this price... And like Tom said, I will wait a season or two... Remember the green 1.0 and 2.0 Freerides?
I thought about enrolling the beta testing program for the Outlaw, but it was like 400$...
FuqBurke, get a pair and write us a nice review...!
I thought about enrolling the beta testing program for the Outlaw, but it was like 400$...
FuqBurke, get a pair and write us a nice review...!
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
Re: 22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
Good info. TomH.
I would happily pay $25 for another pair of heels rather than moving those things back and forth.TomH wrote:And as far as the heel, nothing beats 22D's hammerheel for simple functionality, but they're kind of bitchy if you're using inserts and swapping them between skis.
Re: 22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
Not sure 3lbs 8oz is heavy for tele tour bindings and boots are lighter. My TX Comps are 20 ounces lighter than my T-Races for the same size. Pretty damn significant weight savings there. Outlaws are Lighter than Axls and also lighter than 01s. I will be getting a couple of pair at least. One for some 191 Chargers and another for either some 194 Liberty Genomes or 192 Big Dumps.
Re: 22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
Did I mention I was working on a ntn binding? I must have been mistaken. I'm working on a 75mm bindingLoveJohnny wrote: Just wait until you see the upcoming NTN binding from Bri7... It will destroy all competition...
Re: 22 Designs first NTN binding - Outlaw
Care to elaborate?