Alpina Pioneer 80 XPlore Ski Review

[Stephen]

@jyw5, are you laughing at me, or near me?
.

[Tom M]

[Lighturn]

Great comparison Tom! Keep coming these Vids please!

I liked especially the camber compression test! But why put the 3 mm shim there, and not compres till base, which is the poit where most traction is produced?

I wonder what this cambercompression tells us about the "hard pack compatibility" of a ski?

By the way: which ski would you take for downhilloriented teleturns on hardpack?

And why did you buy a new S-bound 98 as you already have one? AAAAH let me guess: it is going to be screwed with an Xplore binding - correct?

Keep on exploring!

Kindly

Lighturn

[lilcliffy]

@Tom M
Another cool video!

Question- just curious about this-

I have noticed from many of your videos that when moving slowly and/or climbing, you often step forward with skis (i.e. walk with them, lifting them off the snow)- rather than gliding the ski forwards on the snow-

Is there a particular reason why you use this technique?
I don't think I have ever seen it before...
Gareth

[Tom M]

I liked especially the camber compression test! But why put the 3 mm shim there, and not compres till base, which is the poit where most traction is produced?

I wonder what this cambercompression tells us about the "hard pack compatibility" of a ski?

By the way: which ski would you take for downhilloriented teleturns on hardpack?

And why did you buy a new S-bound 98 as you already have one? AAAAH let me guess: it is going to be screwed with an Xplore binding - correct?

Lighturn

At first, I tried to compress the ski down to a slip of paper, but it was too difficult to get a consistent reading. It takes a lot more force to compress the ski flat or nearly flat, especially for stiff double cambered skis, and it was pretty subjective as to what point I should stop applying downward force. My measurement would vary by a couple of pounds each time I tried to measure it. I found that if I compressed the ski down to where it just touched the 3.1 mm spacer, I could easily eyeball the exact point when the base touched the spacer, and it gave me a consistent result. I was only interested in a comparison number between the different skis.

I really avoid telemark on hardpack, so I'll let others chime in. When the conditions are difficult, I'd rather be on my Voile V6's or my Voile Objective's and Scarpa T2s than any other backcountry setup in my quiver. If it is really hard or icy, then I usually end up doing more P turns than tele turns, and P turns are much easier when I'm armored up with the big guns than on my more XC oriented skis and leather boots. I think most would agree that downhill control on ice and hardpack is all about edge contact. It is easier to use the edges on a narrow soft camber ski, but that is only half of the equation. A very stiff boot is just as important for good edge control.

I picked up the new Sbound 98's because I wanted to compare the new Xplore System with my tried and true 3 pin setup. The only way to do a fair comparison is to be able to ski the same ski on the same slope under the same conditions, and in order to do that I need two setups. Just as in some of my other video comparisons, I plan to ski with the 75 mm on one foot and the Xplore on the other foot. I'll post my thoughts later this winter, so stay tuned.

[Tom M]

Question- just curious about this-

I have noticed from many of your videos that when moving slowly and/or climbing, you often step forward with skis (i.e. walk with them, lifting them off the snow)- rather than gliding the ski forwards on the snow-

Is there a particular reason why you use this technique?
I don't think I have ever seen it before...
Gareth

In my "talk and ski selfie shots" I'm holding the camera in one extended hand with the two poles in the other. It is not ideal for good XC form. In other shots, the camera "flattens" the perspective, and the viewer might wonder why I'm walking or stomping up what appears to be a flat or gentle upslope. At any rate, I guess it is my technique, good or bad, and I have to own it.

[Lighturn]

Thank you very much for your explanation. Your work is very helpful!

I guess what you need is a beefy screw in the floor underneath your workbench and hoist or simple pulley system (a set of 3 simple steel ring or carabiner will do the job) and a kind of a cleat to fix the rope - the latter will give you teh time for the reading.

Two positions are of interest: When a piece of paper can no longer be pushed through the zone of the fishcales. This should be half the skiers weight. Thats when the scales do not hinder the downhill glide.

When a narrow paper strip can no longer be moved underneath the center of the ski the scales have full contact with the "snow" this should ideally be the case @ 100% body weight i.e. skier standing on one ski.

The problem might be that you do not find a base plate with the right stiffness, I guess a plank of 50 mm multiplex plywood would do the job - but thats expensive unless your local carpenter gives you a rest. But we are not looking for scientific precision.

It already helps to see how someone flexes a ski, if one can read the body tension.

Cheers

Lighturn



[/quote]
At first, I tried to compress the ski down to a slip of paper, but it was too difficult to get a consistent reading. It takes a lot more force to compress the ski flat or nearly flat, especially for stiff double cambered skis, and it was pretty subjective as to what point I should stop applying downward force. My measurement would vary by a couple of pounds each time I tried to measure it. I found that if I compressed the ski down to where it just touched the 3.1 mm spacer, I could easily eyeball the exact point when the base touched the spacer, and it gave me a consistent result. I was only interested in a comparison number between the different skis.

I picked up the new Sbound 98's because I wanted to compare the new Xplore System with my tried and true 3 pin setup. The only way to do a fair comparison is to be able to ski the same ski on the same slope under the same conditions, and in order to do that I need two setups. Just as in some of my other video comparisons, I plan to ski with the 75 mm on one foot and the Xplore on the other foot. I'll post my thoughts later this winter, so stay tuned.
[/quote]

[jyw5]

great video, Tom! makes me want to get a new pair of S98 to replace my aging S112.

The 80s look like a good all arounder at a good price...but definitely more cambered than I would like for my specific use.

Looks like everyone is so psyched about the new Xplore boot/binding system. I just got the Alfa Guard less than 2 yrs ago. going to stick with that for a while!

[Johnny]

Just a few more words about these beauties... Even at 196cm, they offer MUCH better grip than the WL Ingstad and Nansen, while also offering better glide and being much faster! They go straighter too. (They don't turn quite as well though...) In fact, I think I'm beginning to like them better than the Asnes ones... A really fascinating ski... Quite a winner for Alpina, and a perfect match for XPlore bindings... And most importantly, at almost half the price of Asnes skis!

After using different skis with the XP bindings, I realize that a significant part of my stoke about the XPlore system came from the Pioneer 80 ski itself!

[Stephen]

@Johnny, I’m trying to decide between the T78, Nansen WL, and P80.
For practical reasons, leaning toward the T78, but your P80 love is causing me doubt.
Are you feeling much difference between the T78 and P80?
Thanks for any thoughts…

I have the Nansen WL in 205, T78 in 196 — something has to go back.

EDIT:
So, it looks like what’s available is the Discovery 80, not the Pioneer 80, and I think they’re the same ski?
Anyway, my size would be 208 cm and I’m not finding those available, so looks like it’s down to the Nansen WL and T78.