Asnes Falketind 62 versus Rabb 68

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xcdski
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Re: Asnes Falketind 62 versus Rabb 68

Post by xcdski » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:42 am

Are you suggesting that Asnes doesn't make mistakes, that they are merely indulging in vulgar planned obsolescence ? That would worse. There is a difference between innovation and failing to make the cores of a single ski model the right thickness or camber.(x2)
Hopefully innovation is where a good product is improved. With Asnes it is a flawed product corrected. As you say -not perfect. And as the design of the ski is otherwise unchanged, I would not call that innovative.
As I have noted, I agree that the concept of the FT 62 is brilliant and genuinely innovative but suffered a poor implementation.
It is not the only problem. I compared my Rabbs to another pair. When compressing the skis together the splay of the early rise on my pair extended almost 3 cm. more (towards the binding) than the other pair. This variable may contribute to greater vibration and less grip than with the other pair. When I purchased my Combats I compared cambers in several pairs. Most of the cambers in the pairs of skis were not a close match. Skis of a given length are put into a press in multiples and after they have cured removed and then those skis closest in camber are matched as pairs. Inconsistencies in cores, lay-ups and curing time contribute to these variables. High quality manufacturers rarely suffer these problems. It is my experience that vendors who sell, as an example, high end Fischer XC race skis would send back skis with un-matched cambers. It is possible that those who are unhappy with their Asnes skis have skis with individual flaws.
As a premium ski manufacturer Asnes needs to have better quality control and a longer beta. There is nothing worse than being disappointed with a ski and see the revised model come out the year after.

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Roelant
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Location: Subarctic Scandinavian Taiga
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Re: Asnes Falketind 62 versus Rabb 68

Post by Roelant » Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:23 pm

xcdski wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:42 am

It is not the only problem. I compared my Rabbs to another pair. When compressing the skis together the splay of the early rise on my pair extended almost 3 cm. more (towards the binding) than the other pair. This variable may contribute to greater vibration and less grip than with the other pair. When I purchased my Combats I compared cambers in several pairs. Most of the cambers in the pairs of skis were not a close match. Skis of a given length are put into a press in multiples and after they have cured removed and then those skis closest in camber are matched as pairs. Inconsistencies in cores, lay-ups and curing time contribute to these variables. High quality manufacturers rarely suffer these problems. It is my experience that vendors who sell, as an example, high end Fischer XC race skis would send back skis with un-matched cambers. It is possible that those who are unhappy with their Asnes skis have skis with individual flaws.
Wood is a natural product, and in the case of XC track skis the resulting variable camber is a feature as it allows for matching camber with a skiers weight. There is not a serious sports store store in Norway which would sell you a pair of XC skis without having tested the compression curve for that specific pair to make sure it would match your weight and skill level. Of course as a pro skier, you know this already, so my comment is futile.
If track XC skis have variability due to the products used, do we expect less variability for offtrack XC skis? probably not. Even online shops here ask the skiers weight to find the best matching pair. Ask the shop to give you a pair with more or less camber.
Cheers



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Woodserson
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Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
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Re: Asnes Falketind 62 versus Rabb 68

Post by Woodserson » Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:04 pm

You are attempting to put words in my mouth, or you are interpreting what I am saying through your lens, I don't know which and I don't care.
xcdski wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:42 am
Are you suggesting that Asnes doesn't make mistakes, that they are merely indulging in vulgar planned obsolescence ? That would worse. There is a difference between innovation and failing to make the cores of a single ski model the right thickness or camber.(x2)
No, absolutely not. Stop this insinuation of what you think I'm saying. Are they broken? Can they not be used as skis? I am skiing on my FT62's no problem. No obsolescence here. They are skis and they ski.
xcdski wrote: Hopefully innovation is where a good product is improved. With Asnes it is a flawed product corrected. As you say -not perfect. And as the design of the ski is otherwise unchanged, I would not call that innovative.
Again, no, absolutely not. You are misinterpreting my "not perfect." It's not perfect as in "it's not the end all to be all of all my XCD ski dreams." I do not consider it a defective product. Improvement from year to year doesn't make previous generations a ruse by default. I, as a consumer, am glad that skis are continually improved. Sometimes they are improved in the wrong direction for my desires, (removal of rocker on mid 90 waisted skis for instance-- or the remake of the Atomic Advantage line to something else entirely), but that's a difference in ski design opinion. It is not a nefarious plot of "vulgar planned obsolescence, let's screw these guys!"
xcdski wrote: It is not the only problem. I compared my Rabbs to another pair. When compressing the skis together the splay of the early rise on my pair extended almost 3 cm. more (towards the binding) than the other pair. This variable may contribute to greater vibration and less grip than with the other pair. When I purchased my Combats I compared cambers in several pairs. Most of the cambers in the pairs of skis were not a close match. Skis of a given length are put into a press in multiples and after they have cured removed and then those skis closest in camber are matched as pairs. Inconsistencies in cores, lay-ups and curing time contribute to these variables. High quality manufacturers rarely suffer these problems.
This happens. Last year I had to go through multiple Fischer T-78's as they all had different rocker. My E-99's same, I'm sure the rocker is wrong but I can't find another pair to match them too. Last month I returned a pair of Icelantic Nomad 105 LITE because they were heavier than a non-LITE pair, which is not the point of the LITE. This shit happens with wood cored skis. It's a variability with wood. I don't mind it, I prefer how a wood core ski behaves and I accept variation from individual pair to pair. This is also why I prefer to hand select my skis. AND... usually pairs are from the same core, it's one core cut in two for one pair of matched skis. Maybe that's not the case at every company but I'm willing to bet that's the case at Asnes.

If you have legit criticisms with ski design, that's fair. Your first post was interesting. But just because you don't like the skis you bought doesn't make it some bitter conspiracy by Asnes trying to give you the shaft. Just own it. "I bought these skis, I don't like them due to: A,B,C. and I have regrets and I'm moving on to Fischer/Rossignol/Madshus " and we can have that conversation. Otherwise this is seemingly becoming elaborate smoke blowing for a purchase you now regret.

So what are you going to replace them with?



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xcdski
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Re: Asnes Falketind 62 versus Rabb 68

Post by xcdski » Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:16 am

So it would appear that you accept that manufacturers produce, per your post, bad skis and somehow consumers should accept this as part of the game even if it is at our expense. I disagree. Particularly when paying 30% more for the ski. You say, regarding irregularities in the shovels "this happens". So you are not disputing poor quality control in Asnes, Fischer and others.


I am considering buying a skimo ski although I have concerns about robustness. Otherwise I recently acquired a pair of Rossi-BC 120's but this is more of an lightweight alpine touring ski. I am also speaking with some custom builders about building a ski for me. I still have Epochs . I filled the fish scales with p-tex and had them base ground. Better glide when waxed and easier pivoting. Not a perfect ski by any means.

'vulgar planned obsolescence" was a joke-ironic, nobody is accusing Asnes of taking advantage of its customers. In fact it was you that raised the possibility. I'll use simple declarative sentences for you next time.



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Woodserson
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Asnes Falketind 62 versus Rabb 68

Post by Woodserson » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:31 am

xcdski wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:16 am
So it would appear that you accept that manufacturers produce, per your post, bad skis and somehow consumers should accept this as part of the game even if it is at our expense. I disagree. Particularly when paying 30% more for the ski. You say, regarding irregularities in the shovels "this happens". So you are not disputing poor quality control in Asnes, Fischer and others.


I am considering buying a skimo ski although I have concerns about robustness. Otherwise I recently acquired a pair of Rossi-BC 120's but this is more of an lightweight alpine touring ski. I am also speaking with some custom builders about building a ski for me. I still have Epochs . I filled the fish scales with p-tex and had them base ground. Better glide when waxed and easier pivoting. Not a perfect ski by any means.

'vulgar planned obsolescence" was a joke-ironic, nobody is accusing Asnes of taking advantage of its customers. In fact it was you that raised the possibility. I'll use simple declarative sentences for you next time.
Nope, not all. This is laughable!



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riel
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Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: BC XC
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Re: Asnes Falketind 62 versus Rabb 68

Post by riel » Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:22 pm

xcdski wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:16 am
So it would appear that you accept that manufacturers produce, per your post, bad skis and somehow consumers should accept this as part of the game even if it is at our expense. I disagree. Particularly when paying 30% more for the ski. You say, regarding irregularities in the shovels "this happens". So you are not disputing poor quality control in Asnes, Fischer and others.
Wood is a natural product, with natural variability.

You buy a wood core ski, you buy the unpredictability that comes with that.

You can buy a foam core ski if you want perfect predictability, but those have their own downsides.

Most cross country skis seem to be made in the same few factories in the Ukraine, Czechia, and China. This market is so small most manufacturers do not have their own factory.

That other brand ski you buy might have been made in the same production hall in the same factory as a ski brand you complain about.

The largest differences between the brands seem to be in the things around the core: extra fiberglass or carbon layers for stiffness, the base material used, ways to attach skins to the skis, etc...



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fisheater
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Re: Asnes Falketind 62 versus Rabb 68

Post by fisheater » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:15 pm

I was bored so I looked up @xcdski It appears Mr. Xcdski has posted 8 times. Twice selling never mounted FT and Rabb skis and these posts to complain about them.
Did you ever ski these skis sir?



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