The new Rottefella XPLORE OFFTRACK Binding System Review

Real reviews by real skiers. What a concept! Add your own today. Reviews only please, questions can be posted as replies but new threads looking for opinions should be posted to the main Telemark Talk Forum.
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lowangle al
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Re: Wildly speculative talk about Asnes 21-22 lineup: Otto/FT62

Post by lowangle al » Sun May 09, 2021 10:42 pm

John_XCD wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:45 am
An off topic reply---
Stephen wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:58 pm
So, since you posted that video again, I have to comment.

Top-of-mind for me was the impression that the skiers seemed to be heavy on the back ski and light on the front ski in the DH segments of the video.
The ski weighting was interesting to me.
Many of you have way more time on skies than I do.
As I was working on my DH skills last winter, It seemed there were times when “more weight on rear ski” really seemed to work. It allowed me to more easily use the lead ski as sort of a front rudder in the turn.
Once the turn was initiated, I could more evenly weight both skis.

In the video, it really seemed like the skier stayed weight back during the turn.
It seems like a conservative stance, since it allows some reserve balance, in case of unexpected deceleration.
Maybe I’m just making stuff up...
There are relatively few video examples of XCD technique out there. And maybe interesting to see if any differences with XPLORE (Johnny's review seems to suggest a change in technique). A few screenshots (which of course don't give the full context of motion).
1.png
This seems to show the ball of the foot off the trailing ski. AKA "riding the bumper" on NNNBC. Generally thought to be unstable on NNNBC because the rails are unengaged and unweighted-- but perhaps more powerful on XPLORE with more robust toe connection. And with a rigid bumper may still have significant force engaged on that ski? This looks more like "heavy telemark" technique to me vs NNNBC style XCD. But maybe this type of technique has some functionality on this system.
2.png
3.png
These are more reflective of the body position that you describe- and what I have found works quite well skiing soft snow on NNNBC. The trailing foot has ball of foot engaged on the ski and is heavily weighted-- maybe even primarily engaging the turn. The rear foot is sort of tucked in under the skiers body as opposed to extended behind. It's hard to get center of gravity really low while doing this (as opposed to above). I find this type of positioning in soft/deep snow give the best control and fore/aft balance. On skinny skis in soft snow, overweighting the front ski in my experience leads to tip dive -> loss of momentum -> more weight on the front ski -> more dip dive -> face plant. This video doesn't really snow short radius turns, but I really need to focus on intentionally weighting the "inside"/"trailing" foot when transitioning between turns (on NNNBC, soft snow).

Firmer snow is totally different where you can aggressively weight the front ski to initiate a turn.
Here is my hypothesis on this thread drift. You will still want to be on the ball of your foot when the ski is weighted. The stiff flexor will help during the unweighted transition part of the turn where your heels will come up. This creates tip pressure which keeps your edges more engaged throughout the turn giving you smoother, better carved turns.

Maybe more important, this tip pressure will help those people who aren't getting enough weight on that trailing ski by getting it to turn where it otherwise wouldn't.

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Stephen
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Thread Drift -- Wildly speculative talk about Asnes 21-22 lineup: Otto/FT62

Post by Stephen » Mon May 10, 2021 12:42 am

I really was hooked by the skiing in the Asnes video.
Maybe all y'all are rockin' it like this guy, but I ain't -- which is why my skiing style is "Aspirational." What can I learn here?
It's so flowy / surfy / Zen.
This guy seems just right there.
I liked @John_XCD's (and @lilcliffy's) comments on the screen shots he put up.

Overall, it seems like they are skiing fairly fast and getting on top of the snow some.
In this shot, it looks like he is at the apex of the turn and just powering into it on front ski.
Either that, or he's getting ready to transition into the next turn -- that might be it.
1.png
.
Again, seems fairly weight-back, and I agree with John and LC comments.
2.png
.
Again, on back ski and keeping the front ski on top of the snow.
Talk about passion -- this makes me want to go skiing!
Where do I get on this ride?
3.png
.
I have watched this in slo-mo a few times and in almost every turn, especially before the fall-line, it's weight on the back ski, front ski staying more on the surface of the snow.
Here he is just into a new turn to illustrate.
5.JPG
As @John_XCD said, there are other techniques for other conditions.
I just find studying technique to be interesting.



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Johnny
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Re: The new Rottefella XPLORE OFFTRACK Binding System Review

Post by Johnny » Mon May 10, 2021 8:02 am

John_XCD wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:45 am
This seems to show the ball of the foot off the trailing ski. AKA "riding the bumper" on NNNBC. Generally thought to be unstable on NNNBC because the rails are unengaged and unweighted-- but perhaps more powerful on XPLORE with more robust toe connection. And with a rigid bumper may still have significant force engaged on that ski? This looks more like "heavy telemark" technique to me vs NNNBC style XCD. But maybe this type of technique has some functionality on this system.
I am glad you mention this John. Because I couldn't help it: while it has nice breathtaking scenes and vivid trendy 4K drone shots, the only thing I could see in that 4 minutes video was the few seconds you just mentioned*. I can't help it... I have seen bazillions of awe-inspiring ski videos in the past 40 years, but only one with the XPlore system. 8-)
(The Gamme / Skog one doesn't even count...)

* I also clearly heard a voice saying that the new FT62 has "A Double Camber", leaving no room for interpretation... 8-)
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
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lowangle al
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Re: Thread Drift -- Wildly speculative talk about Asnes 21-22 lineup: Otto/FT62

Post by lowangle al » Mon May 10, 2021 9:00 am

Stephen wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:42 am
I really was hooked by the skiing in the Asnes video.
Maybe all y'all are rockin' it like this guy, but I ain't -- which is why my skiing style is "Aspirational." What can I learn here?
It's so flowy / surfy / Zen.
This guy seems just right there.
I liked @John_XCD's (and @lilcliffy's) comments on the screen shots he put up.

Overall, it seems like they are skiing fairly fast and getting on top of the snow some.
In this shot, it looks like he is at the apex of the turn and just powering into it on front ski.
Either that, or he's getting ready to transition into the next turn -- that might be it.
1.png
.
Again, seems fairly weight-back, and I agree with John and LC comments.
2.png
.
Again, on back ski and keeping the front ski on top of the snow.
Talk about passion -- this makes me want to go skiing!
Where do I get on this ride?
3.png
.
I have watched this in slo-mo a few times and in almost every turn, especially before the fall-line, it's weight on the back ski, front ski staying more on the surface of the snow.
Here he is just into a new turn to illustra@John_XCD

As @John_XCD said, there are other techniques for other conditions.
I just find studying technique to be interesting.
Stephen, learning how to weight the rear ski is the key to the tele turn. To work on it I suggest skiing on a low enough angle slope that you don't have to worry about controlling your speed. Over exaggerate the amount of weight on the rear ski so the lead ski is acting like a rudder steering. This will help you find the position you need to be in to make the rear ski work. Once you figure this out you can start putting more weight on the lead ski to make it work better for steering and speed control. Once you know how to weight the rear ski you then can figure out how to distribute weight between your skis for different situations.



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John_XCD
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Re: Thread Drift -- Wildly speculative talk about Asnes 21-22 lineup: Otto/FT62

Post by John_XCD » Mon May 10, 2021 10:42 am

lowangle al wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:00 am
learning how to weight the rear ski is the key to the tele turn
Yes. Emphasizing that weighting the trailing ski is very different from "weight back", "in the back seat", "in the toilet". In fact weighting the trailing ski at the ball of foot with the heel lifted is about as far forward as you can physically be on that ski. Skiing on NTN with plastic boots you can "weight" the ski through the energy in the boot/binding system as the heel lifts progressively higher. In this case the force of the springs to "unwind" the activated system exert downward force on the ski tip = control. XPLORE may give some of this sensation with a rigid flexor. But generally light XCD requires actual body weight on the trailing ski.

Objectives with big fat rockered tips are much more forgiving in this way than a more XCd ski. I feel like I'm still figuring that ski out but the weight distribution can tend more towards the front ski. That said, it is so much easier to be comfortable favoring the trailing ski and adjusting weight onto the lead ski as opposed to the other way around.

A few other suggestions for anyone who lands on this page to practice weight distribution-- which feels very counterintuitive. The first two were how I spent a lot of time on XC track skis trying to figure out how to telemark:

- Gentle downhill with a packed/snowmachine track with fresh powder to the side. Straddle the edge with one ski on the consolidated snow and one ski in the powder (lets say left on packed, right in powder). You can weight the L ski predominately to speed up and transfer weight to the R ski to slow down. Sometimes quite an effective survival skiing technique in and of itself. Drop your L knee, lift your L heel and ride straight in a telemark position with your weight on the ball of L foot predominately (R foot still in the powder lightly weighted). Can feel different weight distributions here as well. Now you can add a wide radius open turn to enter and exit the packed snow. At this point you are confidently weighting the trailing ski and can make open telemark turns in the powder crossing over either side of your packed trail.

- Fly down a packed trail with speed and shoot off into soft snow. Try not to face plant and ride a telemark position into the powder. The skinnier the ski, faster the speed, deeper the powder, bigger the audience the better.

- If you find yourself on alpine skis and a very mellow catwalk type area, try gentle carving turns using only the inside ski (outside ski is lifted off the snow). Try to initiate the turn with the little toe on the inside foot. This is the wrong gear, body position, etc for XCD telemark but helps with the idea of engaging a turn with inside ski.



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Johnny
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Re: The new Rottefella XPLORE OFFTRACK Binding System Review

Post by Johnny » Wed May 12, 2021 1:24 pm

Two nice interviews with Øyvar Svendsen, the designer of the XPLORE system and Torstein Myklebostad, director at Rottefella Norway... We learn that the sucessor of NNN-BC has been in the works for 15 years... The first XPLORE patent in 2016... And we also learn why it took so long to come out due to financial problems when they lost Fischer and Rossignol a few years ago...

This is how Rottefella invests in technology to survive

Rottefella is inventing completely new technology for mountain ski bindings
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Re: The new Rottefella XPLORE OFFTRACK Binding System Review

Post by riel » Wed May 12, 2021 2:36 pm

Johnny wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:24 pm
Two nice interviews with Øyvar Svendsen, the designer of the XPLORE system and Torstein Myklebostad, director at Rottefella Norway... We learn that the sucessor of NNN-BC has been in the works for 15 years... The first XPLORE patent in 2016... And we also learn why it took so long to come out due to financial problems when they lost Fischer and Rossignol a few years ago...
I wonder if they'll lose NNN-BC customers too, when those patents expire.

That might be a reason to put some of the innovations (especially flex) from XPlore into NNN-BC, because that would extend the patents on NNN-BC soles sold.

A reason for doing it now would be that the boot makers still have the knowledge gained from making the XPlore boots fresh in the minds of their teams, so that change could be done at a fraction of the effort (and cost) today, compared to what it would cost 5-10 years from now when people will have forgotten the things involved in making XPlore boots happen.



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Re: The new Rottefella XPLORE OFFTRACK Binding System Review

Post by fisheater » Sun May 16, 2021 10:32 am

I agree that the back foot is that differentiates the Telemark turn from the alpine turn. One simple thing I have learned that helps develop back foot technique is doing the back foot hockey stop. I do it a lot just because I enjoy it.



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Re: The new Rottefella XPLORE OFFTRACK Binding System Review

Post by Tom M » Tue May 25, 2021 8:08 am




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Re: The new Rottefella XPLORE OFFTRACK Binding System Review

Post by joeatomictoad » Tue May 25, 2021 10:51 am

fisheater wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 10:32 am
One simple thing I have learned that helps develop back foot technique is doing the back foot hockey stop. I do it a lot just because I enjoy it.
Totally agree. I call it a flare. Guess an instructor would call it a side slip or pivot slip. I enjoy doing this when going over a pure sheet of blue ice (have yet to successfully do falling leaf on pure ice). Promotes great edge control and balance. Super humbling on ice, and it's a really fun way to drop a knee.



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