Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

[bgregoire]

I printed out the entire webpage of Dave Mann's pure genius on XCD about five years ago. I made three coppies. A copy is about 50 pages. If anyone would like a copy, unless it's on the web again, let me know. we can arrange something

Paul, nice offer. Better yet, you should scan it and share it on this forum via its own thread. A pdf can be bound to a post just like an image.

[paulk]

a scan project for my daughter maybe over school break. i would like to share it.

[Baaahb]

The big problem here is they don't make a light plastic 2 buckle 75 mm boot. Excursions are much heavier then they *should* be. Maybe it's time to try out the recent T-4. I've always had a "scarpa" foot.

Free pivot is overrated and overused. It absolutely rocks for breaking trail in powder but for an efficient kick and glide you want the ski to start moving forward early in the step, which is what the resistance of 3-pins does...and you get that with an NNN/SNS binding as well, but only if the skis are really light.

I have found that the buckle strap on soft boots makes the fit tighter but really does nothing to impede rolling the ankle, which is what is important for greater turn control, so....no help.

Discuss.

[bgregoire]

The big problem here is they don't make a light plastic 2 buckle 75 mm boot. Excursions are much heavier then they *should* be. Maybe it's time to try out the recent T-4. I've always had a "scarpa" foot.

Free pivot is overrated and overused. It absolutely rocks for breaking trail in powder but for an efficient kick and glide you want the ski to start moving forward early in the step, which is what the resistance of 3-pins does...and you get that with an NNN/SNS binding as well, but only if the skis are really light.

I have found that the buckle strap on soft boots makes the fit tighter but really does nothing to impede rolling the ankle, which is what is important for greater turn control, so....no help.

Discuss.

Bob, Have you paired a true Thermomoldable liner with those Excursions or T4s? That actually makes them a lot lighter than you would expect. The new T4s are somewhat expensive, but that is essential because of the thermomoldable liner they now include.

I agree with the buckle strap on soft boots issue. I've experienced you need both the instep (not too high) buckle AND stiff tongue to make the difference. Some leather boots got it better than others but still not as well as the plastic shelled ones.

[Baaahb]

I've played with switching liners a bit. One complication: my foot is narrow and thin so I need to add boot fitting foam to make the Excursions fit.

[Woodserson]

I've played with switching liners a bit. One complication: my foot is narrow and thin so I need to add boot fitting foam to make the Excursions fit.

I have T4's and a pretty skinny ankle and beginning of foot with a normal fore-foot. The T4's fit great, no heel lift. Excursions fit me weird and loose (at least in the store, never skied in them). I bet you'd need less foam in the T4, it might be worth the expense. I ski everything in mine in New England, Voile V6 + T4 is a sweet tree skiing combination here, no joke. It's a little light for bigger out west/europe mountains, I've found.

I agree, a lighter 2 buckle boot would be nice. Or a boot between the T4 and T2 Eco would be nice too. So that makes two of us for an entire production line.

[Baaahb]

Didn't they stop making the T4 for a while? I am pleased to see it in stores and look forward to trying it on.

[Woodserson]

Didn't they stop making the T4 for a while? I am pleased to see it in stores and look forward to trying it on.

I think you're thinking of the Excursion when Garmont stopped and Scott took over.

[fgd135]

I used Garmont Excursions for quite a while, but even with custom insoles was never pleased with fit or the flex for touring. Support was certainly OK. The pair I had was the original boot and thick non-moldable liners, and very soft tongue on the shell.
Lo and behold, when I upgraded from my old Garmont Veloce's to T2 Eco's for lift-service tele skiing, I found they were not much heavier than the Excursions, with a better fit overall, a better touring flex, and of course more support for turning. I did go down a full shell size from the Excursions, so that would explain the narrower wt. difference than advertised...and as an aside, the T2 Ecos are much lighter than those admittedly 20 year old Veloces.
The Excursions were sold on Craigslist after a season comparing the two boots.
If the new Scotts have a moldable liner that would probably help with the fit issues, and a stiffer tongue would probably help with touring flex.
I use the leather Alico SM boot for most touring, but the T2's (formerly the Excursions) for steeper tours and hut trips with bigger packs.

[fisheater]

I used Garmont Excursions for quite a while, but even with custom insoles was never pleased with fit or the flex for touring. Support was certainly OK. The pair I had was the original boot and thick non-moldable liners, and very soft tongue on the shell.
Lo and behold, when I upgraded from my old Garmont Veloce's to T2 Eco's for lift-service tele skiing, I found they were not much heavier than the Excursions, with a better fit overall, a better touring flex, and of course more support for turning. I did go down a full shell size from the Excursions, so that would explain the narrower wt. difference than advertised...and as an aside, the T2 Ecos are much lighter than those admittedly 20 year old Veloces.
The Excursions were sold on Craigslist after a season comparing the two boots.
If the new Scotts have a moldable liner that would probably help with the fit issues, and a stiffer tongue would probably help with touring flex.
I use the leather Alico SM boot for most touring, but the T2's (formerly the Excursions) for steeper tours and hut trips with bigger packs.

FGD, since you have a Ski March boot and I see you are selling an Alico Double can you compare the stiffness of the sole on both boots? I’m also curious if the high stiff, and reinforced leather of the Alico Double would make it less desirable to tour on as opposed to the Ski March.
I really prefer my Ski March in most touring applications to my T-4. If I tent tour, I will want a double boot. The T-4 works. However, I prefer leather when I can use leather.
Thank you,
Bob