LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

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Krakus
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Location: Southern Poland
Ski style: many falls
Favorite Skis: Tua Grande Neige :), Asnes Nansen, Salomon XADV89
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Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Post by Krakus » Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:49 pm

I would like to ask about waxing for base maintenance. I mean, preventing from oxidation, drying, pore closing etc. Isn't it enough to hot wax them using Polar, as recommended by @lilcliffy ? I remember, but might be mistaken, that perhaps Pinnah suggested something similar, long time ago (previous telemarktalk forum) about hot waxing with layer of Swix Green or Polar for the ski storage off-season. I tried to search but with no results.

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lilcliffy
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Post by lilcliffy » Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:06 pm

(Although I know that the conventional wisdom is to store skis with soft glide wax- hot waxed and not scraped)-

I store my touring skis with the bases untouched
Polar from tip to tail-
whatever kick wax happens to be underfoot-

I wipe them down with a wet cloth at the beginning of the season to remove dust/dirt-

I don't bother removing the kick wax before storage- it is often what I need at the beginning of the season!

I have never had any issues with base condition/maitenance/longevity/oxidation.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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Krakus
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:14 am
Location: Southern Poland
Ski style: many falls
Favorite Skis: Tua Grande Neige :), Asnes Nansen, Salomon XADV89
Favorite boots: Fischer BCX6, BCX675

Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Post by Krakus » Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:11 pm

Many thanks, Gareth!



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lilcliffy
Posts: 3252
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Post by lilcliffy » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:50 pm

On another note- one of things I do- religiously-

I wipe down the entire ski- making sure the edges are completely dry, before I store them- even short-term-
(I set them in the kitchen to unthaw them and let all the snow melt and drip out before wiping them down)

I have had some frustrations (can't mention her name) with someone putting skis in the shed/basement wet, and the steel edges rusting-

BTW- I don't know the reason entirely, but I find my newer Fischer (E99/E109 XL; 78, 88) skis to be particularly prone to edge rusting/corrosion...
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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the Big Mao
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Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Post by the Big Mao » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:59 pm

I'm VERY much appreciating your experience and results on waxing! And yes, absolutely, your first observation that wax application info is from a racing point. As a former elite and coach, yeah, this is pretty much the main topic in that world. I'm also interested in what you think of your Combat Natos-how well they ski, handle, etc.



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tkarhu
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Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Post by tkarhu » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:57 pm

Thanks for great information in this and other threads, @lilcliffy and others! FYI, below is some information from Finnish language XC sites.

As background, I have studied waxing tips from Finnish XC forums and blogs lately. Further, I read this forum because I look forward to replacing my Karhu XCD GT (210 cm) BC skis with stiffer double camber skis (I am 180 cm, 83 kg). I ski with the XCD GT’s also on groomed tracks, when it gets really icy. I have skied mainly day trips with waxable skis on tracks, and with XCD GT’s + full length, 38 mm skins on sledge trips. Yet also on groomed tracks, I turned to Intelligrip kicker skins after a frustrating experience, when I tried to ski to office in wet snowfall on groomed tracks. Yet I study better waxing because I enjoy good glide. Maybe wax could work even with a sledge on flat terrain days. Then skins or grip bases for warm days.
lilcliffy wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:37 am
My questions are these:
1) Base binder clearly does extend the life of grip wax on old refrozen, abrasive snow (Though I do not find it is as effective in the backcountry as it is on a smooth groomed track...). Does it extend it long enough to make it worth using it underneath a grip-waxed base?
A school of Finnish long distance XC skiers uses base klister instead of base wax in Finland. In their experience, base klister makes grip wax more durable than base wax.

They would apply a very thin layer of base klister after cleaning skis. After that, they would add a thin layer of hard grip wax on top of the base klister (no matter what weather).

Would base klister mke sense with the full ski Polar wax system? I cannot tell. But could it maybe make it even better, especially on abrasive snow? Maybe, because isn’t abrasion same on and off track.
lilcliffy wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:37 am
2) Touching up and re-applying grip wax to a base with base binder in the field/on the trail seems too complicated and time consuming- especially once the base binder is completely stripped in patches from the base. Perhaps, if I stopped and re-applied Polar before I was down into the base binder?
A Finnish manufacturer (Rex) produces liquid base klister nowadays. The liquid klister has solvent and otherwise same content as a typical base klister. Liquid klisters can be applied in the field. (Yet Finnish XC skiers would use a "golden" liquid klister in the field more typically.) Price is double that of typical klister.

Not related to abrasive snow, but ski gliding surfaces. With modern sintered bases, many Finnish track XC skiers do not wax glide areas at all. It they do, many do it just for protecting the skis from drying and scrapes. Some ski services grind ski base glide areas, and some people scrape glide areas with iron scrapers themselves instead of waxing. Yet with heavy sledges, some old school Finnish BC skiers (who use wax, not skins) do full base grip wax, when it gets hilly. For the BC setting, they would use weather specific grip wax.



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fisheater
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Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Post by fisheater » Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:48 pm

@tkarhu Very interesting ideas in regards to base klister. Perhaps you might give it a try and report back? For my skiing i can get some miles in and feel I need to touch up the wax a bit. I have enough miles in, that I don’t mind a little wax break. I use klister, and when conditions call for klister I am usually quite pleased with the results. However klister is more expensive than wax, which really isn’t a big deal for me. The big thing is klister needs to be scraped off afterwards, or it migrates stickiness to distances one wouldn’t think possible! So for me, I won’t be the first to try. I have to admit, I hope it isn’t that much of a benefit. Only because as much as I don’t mind scraping klister, I don’t it to be part of my after ski routine every time.
Please don’t consider my post dismissive or that I didn’t appreciate your post. I really am glad you posted and it is an interesting idea. I just hope that it isn’t so good that I become convinced to use klister more than I am now!



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tkarhu
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Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Post by tkarhu » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:08 am

Haha :D Yes I do have some liquid base klister now, which I will use for base wax in a pair of track skis. I will report back, how it works. Yet that might take some time because snow has turned to ice fields lately.

A base klister hopefully does not need to be removed at any point, except summer storage maybe. Further, you apply the liquid klisters without heat. So the liquid versions seam actually easier than some waxes. Yet they might not be more durable than heated waxes.



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tkarhu
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Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Post by tkarhu » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:30 pm

Well, klister in glide areas might have some practical issues in abrasive snow :D with full ski polar wax, when the polar wax wears out, glide might not be perfect.



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