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Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:32 pm
by CoreyLayton
Question: for "crown" type skiis, would you still do Polar across the whole ski, including the crown sections?
Or, alternatively, Polar across the Tip and Crown sections, and some sort of "glide wax" for the Tails? (<<<probably overly-complicated and not necessary...)

Up until now, my waxing knowledge/experience is a generic slab of "cold" wax, that i would apply to my crown-type skiis - simply to keep the snow/ice from "sticking" - and not for performance reasons.

I hope to up my game a bit this season.
Thanks for posting such an informative thread!

Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:56 pm
by Woodserson
I use hot glide wax on my crown skis. Make them as fast as possible. The mechanical grip is more than enough drag no sense in adding any more however slight.

Unrelatedly: I also use hot glide wax on the glide sections of my wax skis too, especially aft of the heelpiece, and use Polar in areas where I'm going to apply grip wax, usually heel forward. Unless it's my woodies and then I Polar the whole ski.

Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:31 pm
by Woodserson
Oh, and I only use paste wax like Maxi-Glide or Swix F4 on the Fischer Offtrack Crown. On other waxless patterns that are made of the same base material as the glide sections (Madshus, Voile, Altai) I have hot waxed them using the special technique that is floating around the internet.

Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:56 pm
by lilcliffy
I use very hard Polar wax on the entire base of my waxless-scaled (i.e. "Crown") touring skis.

I also use kick wax on scaled skis- even on the scales themselves.

The hard grip waxes glide on warm snow- and I get much better grip on cold and icy snow.

I know that is somewhat of a paradox to use grip/kick wax on a "waxless" ski, but it works for me in my local touring.

For consideration- my long, extended spring skiing has a mix of very cold mornings (often with fresh snow on top of white concrete) that warms up above freezing and rots in the afternoon. I need a ski that is going to perform all day in those conditions.

My local skiing has extreme temperature ranges- another reason why I avoid glide waxes is so that I rarely have to strip an entire base and apply a different glide wax following a significant temperature change (that will likely be temporary).

While I find hard grip waxes glide well on warmer snow- I have not gotten good performance from cold, hard glide wax on warmer wetter snow...

YMMV

Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:13 pm
by Woodserson
lilcliffy wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:56 pm


While I find hard grip waxes glide well on warmer snow- I have not gotten good performance from cold, hard glide wax on warmer wetter snow...

YMMV
OH

This is very interesting. You can really notice this different between a cold glide wax vs. a cold grip wax on warm snow?

This may make me re-evaluate how I do things. I usually use a red wax (upper 20's temp) glide wax and figure that covers me higher and lower, but I lose a cold hard glide wax to fill in fishscales I don't want to use. I wonder now. Very interesting stuff. Do you have a good supportive story for this or is it gut feeling? (totally acceptable, just curious)

Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:36 am
by corlay
thank you all for this discussion - very helpful!

Re: LilCliffy's Nordic Backcountry Touring Waxing

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:30 pm
by lilcliffy
Woodserson wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:13 pm
lilcliffy wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:56 pm


While I find hard grip waxes glide well on warmer snow- I have not gotten good performance from cold, hard glide wax on warmer wetter snow...

YMMV
OH

This is very interesting. You can really notice this different between a cold glide wax vs. a cold grip wax on warm snow?

This may make me re-evaluate how I do things. I usually use a red wax (upper 20's temp) glide wax and figure that covers me higher and lower, but I lose a cold hard glide wax to fill in fishscales I don't want to use. I wonder now. Very interesting stuff. Do you have a good supportive story for this or is it gut feeling? (totally acceptable, just curious)
As the heart of my local winter is cold to very cold- the local wisdom is to use hard glide wax when the temperature drops- and my limited experience is that soft-warm glide wax does not perform well or last long on cold to very cold snow.

Conversely- I do not find that hard-cold glide wax performs well on warm wet snow- in fact I have many experiences with warm wet snow sticking to hard glide wax and creating this kind of sunction-cup effect as it does not disperse moisture effectively (like soft-warm glide wax does).

If one is using soft-warm glide wax most of the winter- this might not be a problem or might not even be noticed...

With grip wax-
my personal experience is that hard grip waxes glide well on warmer snow and disperse moisture effectively on warm wet snow. Therefore, I don't have to strip my base when skiing on warmer snow.