Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

This is a bit late... but I told Nitram Tocrut I'd put it up. I work in public education administration and need to set my calendar of working/off days at the beginning of the school year. I had put a week in Feb in and planned to load up the car and make a tour of the Vail owned areas out west and make use of my pass. Plans changed a bit when I saw the dates set for the Canadian Ski Marathon which had been on my sporting bucket list for a few years and matched up with the start of my planned leave.

The infrastructure for the event is amazing. None of it is fancy, but it's good and easy enough to book and navigate for a first-timer. I landed in Montreal the Friday before the event, made my way to the bus station and found our chartered bus to take us to the dorms. I was staying with the other full distance participants in Mont Tremblant the first night. I think we got in around 20:00, and breakfast opened at 03:00 so it was time to be efficient with setting up and sleeping.

It's a bit of a shock to arrive at a party with music and snacks at 05:15 in the morning, but lots of high spirits. The first sector (9.5km) was fast and fun, mostly downhill on great tracks. However, it was still very dark and somewhat crowded making it a little bit hard to enjoy all of it the way it maybe should be. The second sector (23.2km) started out amazing but turned difficult. Many very short steep sections, lakes with thin refrozen overflow, and my pace suffered. It was at the third checkpoint I realized that I maybe needed to pick it up a little. Sector 3 (18.7km) had quite a bit of steep sections. There were a couple of people who would pass me on the flats and gentle uphill, and then I would pass them on the downhill. I was on MR48 skin skis and Alaska BC boots which made me very, very happy on the downhill sections which really surprised me with how technical and challenging they were. But I was not happy much of the rest of the time. I did a lot of watching my watch and pace and worrying in this sector. I needed to make the 15:30 cutoff at the end of sector 4 to be able to continue, and it felt like I was right on the edge.

Until I actually got to the checkpoint and realized that sector 4 was only 12.5km. I had added the sector lengths wrong, and it turns out I would be fine. Sector 4 winds through a nature park and has one big col. Many, many folks around me needed to walk the descent, I was again pretty happy to be able to ski it. Made it to the checkpoint at 15:00, enjoyed an extra cup of gatorade chaud (seriously a lifesaver) and started the final sector of the day. Sector 5 (15.9km) was mostly rolling to downhill and sometimes a pain because of road crossings (or needing to ski on the apron of the ski bank on the side of the road) and the general messiness as you need to connect two dots getting closer to towns. Had a nice chat with a fellow who was attempting the gold (the full 160km with an overnight pack and staying outside between days) for the second time and felt good about his attempt this year. I got into Montebello and rushed to the bus as I was worried about getting everything turned around before the next day. I felt worked, but generally OK. I did not feel OK the next morning. Like, I could move, but not well, and it's really hard to get loose at 05:00 in the cold. I knew throughout sector 6 (15.4km) that I was not moving fast enough but also didn't want to push it too hard with so far to go. It was a nice sector across golf courses and rolling hills, but generally uphill to climb back out of the river valley. Sector 7 (20.4km) was my favorite. Beautiful rolling hills of forest and farmland, great tracks, and a good time. I started to find my legs just a little bit... maybe I could make it in time. I almost lost my mental edge at sector 8 (16.2km). See, this is the map: We are traveling right to left (East to West) but the profile is still counting up km left to right. So I was thinking "ok, I'm in good shape here, mostly downhill, two early hills." I got totally fooled, and only realized my mistake halfway up the first big hill thinking "wow, there's not much distance left, how much more hill can there be?" and the answer is... a lot. Furthermore, these trails were snowmobile club trails, so groomed but untracked and the snow was starting to heat. It was now full panic time and I was definitely not on pace to meet the cut time. Sector 9 (14.5km) was full mess. The snow was heating to the point now that the waxers needed klister and even my skins were struggling at times. There were a few km of having to walk along roads. I was constantly just doing math the entire time. I finally saw the 5km to go and the 2km to go and made it to the checkpoint with 7min to spare. Time for one last gatorade chaud and start moving again. At least I could now take it a little easy with no real deadline to finish. Had some dinner, collected my medal, and got on the charter back to Montreal for my flight to Colorado (next posts...).

I would 100% do this again and think it's a really special event. One challenge is picking what I think the right gear is. It is much more of an adventure across a wide variety of terrain and conditions than I initially thought. I was so, so happy to have metal edges for how steep and prolonged some of the hills were, but the Alaska BC was just way too much boot. I was likely overall just working too hard and going too slow. Maybe the MR48 or the M44 fjelltech with a fast NNN boot might be the right combo. Or maybe just being good enough to be up front, as part of the problem is ice getting exposed in the middle of the trail from hundreds of people plowing. My hydration and nutrition plan also didn't really work as I planned, so I have to give that a rethink.

Great post. Hundreds of Qs. First… congrats on going the distance. Huge hometown advantage for locals (gear, snow). And here you are all the way from Cali.

Most interested in skins. Did you do the full distance on them? Nylon or mohair? How did they hold up? Speed you up (hills) or slow you down relative to competitors on waxed/waxless?

So then it was onto Colorado. My wife flew in to meet me (one of the benefits of changing plans... she wasn't down for the full dirtbag roadtrip, but perked up when it was just a loop around western CO) and we sorted our combined gear. Our first stop was Beaver Creek. Some years ago they kind of messed up the nordic area (McCoy Park) and installed lifts for a big beginner terrain area.

I actually think it might be a cooler place now. The nordic trails go all the way around the outside, and the center is all low angle, much of it ungroomed, and lots of ski able trees. In other words... it could be the *perfect* in-bounds XCD area. The nordic center already only rents out metal edged BC skis. I had an absolute blast in that area. My wife a little less so as she's much more XCd and the routefinding adventure was high for a first time and a low visibility day. We skied there for two days. It's been a long time dream to ski the birds of prey downhill... but alas it was not to be. Not enough fresh snow to make it anything other than an effort of desperate survival. Sure was cool to be there though. I did hang it out on the Stone Creek Chutes which was really pushing my fear and comfort levels, but there was some good soft stuff over there and I skied it pretty well. Ended up being pretty proud of that one. We packed up the car and headed to Gunnison/Crested Butte. I ended up downhilling and my wife hit the nordic trails. It would have been cool to have better conditions because the terrain at CB is mind blowing. Definiately want to go back sometime soon, but the combo of tracked out and icy + really tired legs at this point had me sticking to more moderate trails. Final stop was Ouray for a couple of days of ice climbing. They have a super complex set of sprayers to farm ice all along the box canyon. It's a little wild being in what is effectively an ice climbing gym. Met some cool folks, got a really strong send of a mixed route that was probably M5/WI3+ and had a great time getting some laps in. Ouray is also a fun town with an obnoxiously high proportion of mountain enjoyers and a municipal pool+hot springs that reminds me of some of the cooler sundlaug in Iceland. Then it was time to go home. Really a great winter holiday.

Manney wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:55 am

Great post. Hundreds of Qs. First… congrats on going the distance. Huge hometown advantage for locals (gear, snow). And here you are all the way from Cali.

Most interested in skins. Did you do the full distance on them? Nylon or mohair? How did they hold up? Speed you up (hills) or slow you down relative to competitors on waxed/waxless?

I was on the MR48 skin, so integrated kicker skins. I'd say about 25% of the people I saw were on skin skis. Maybe a little more. I did not see anyone on waxless. The first day was a tiny bit slower, it was an overall elevation loss but I think the BC gear did more to slow me down than the skins. The second day skin skiers were smug as people started to emergency apply klister. I know a number of folks ended up missing the cut or threw in the towel because there was just no grip on the afternoon of the second day. The skins are pretty much toast tho--and that's another gear consideration. There's parking lots and roads and all kinds of things to ski on and cross. My skis really took a beating and it's already time to swap skins (which I had done recently). Just the nature of skiing that many continuous km... there's going to be some crud and junk to cross. I'd never ski a really nice set of skis... there'd be too much walking.

@spopepro Basically you did 97 miles in two days in the Quebec countryside? Sounds pretty rugged to me. My legs would have definitely been toasty by Colorado! I’m not saying I would have made it, hats off to you.
Hopefully @Nitram Tocrut will pipe in, I’d like to hear how an old farmer did. I spent 20 plus years pushing concrete, so I spent some years doing heavy work.

fisheater wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:55 am

@spopepro Basically you did 97 miles in two days in the Quebec countryside? Sounds pretty rugged to me. My legs would have definitely been toasty by Colorado! I’m not saying I would have made it, hats off to you.
Hopefully @Nitram Tocrut will pipe in, I’d like to hear how an old farmer did. I spent 20 plus years pushing concrete, so I spent some years doing heavy work.

@fisheater i am finally piping in! Have been and still quite busy with the farming season! Especially this year as we are experiencing a very special season that even the more seasoned farmers has not experienced! If all the rain we got in the last month was snow we would be literally covered by meters of snow. It is just crazy and we are all concerned about the future... it is not getting easier...

But I am here to talk about the Canadian Ski Marathon and hopefully no one will pipe in and say this forum is not the place to discuss such matter @fisheater you wondered how an "old" farmer did... well 55 is not that old Seriously, it was supposed to be such a great event with all the snow we had but it all changed, starting on the Thursday, as we got freezing rain and then it warmed up on the Sunday... so we had icy conditions for the first day and on Sunday it got so warmed that I could hardly get my skis to go forward. So I skied more or less 80 km in total and one thing is sure, I was not physically ready to do the whine thing... and I did not expect to do my all anyway

@spopepro there will be some major change for the 2024 edition. I have the chance to know the director of the event that takes place in my region. Next year the Marathon will still start from the same place and finish in Montebello. But in the second day we will start and finish in Montebello. I can't give you all the reasoning behind that decision but the main reason is the logistic involved in organizing the event. By concentrating the event in a more restricted area it will reduce the extreme workload they already face. I do t have all the details about where we will ski but we should have less walking to do on roads... which was a nightmare last year and some of it was due to the poor weather.

I am really excited about those changes and I can't wait to experience it. As for ski gear... I totally agree with @spooepro about having metal edges. Well, the vast majority of skiers don't use skis with metal edge but they sure can be useful. The Marathon is the reason why I bought a pair of MT51 with ¾ metal edges as I missed them so much last year on the icy conditions. I also plan to ski more on groomed tracks even though I prefer doing my own trails. I have a friend that is preparing me a program to get in shape for the event... you got to be prepared!!! I can manage 50-60 km 2 days in a row but skiing 80 km 2 days in a row is a big step.

If anyone is interested in participating in this event just let me know. I know @spopepro is supposed to come back and I have been discussing with @LilCliffy about this as well. Of course, if you are only I to telemark turn this not the event for you...

Such a cool thread. Awesome effort. Just you and a very long trail. Legendary!

Keep it up.

Nitram Tocrut wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:24 pm

@spopepro there will be some major change for the 2024 edition. I have the chance to know the director of the event that takes place in my region. Next year the Marathon will still start from the same place and finish in Montebello. But in the second day we will start and finish in Montebello. I can't give you all the reasoning behind that decision but the main reason is the logistic involved in organizing the event. By concentrating the event in a more restricted area it will reduce the extreme workload they already face. I do t have all the details about where we will ski but we should have less walking to do on roads... which was a nightmare last year and some of it was due to the poor weather.

I am really excited about those changes and I can't wait to experience it. As for ski gear... I totally agree with @spooepro about having metal edges. Well, the vast majority of skiers don't use skis with metal edge but they sure can be useful. The Marathon is the reason why I bought a pair of MT51 with ¾ metal edges as I missed them so much last year on the icy conditions. I also plan to ski more on groomed tracks even though I prefer doing my own trails. I have a friend that is preparing me a program to get in shape for the event... you got to be prepared!!! I can manage 50-60 km 2 days in a row but skiing 80 km 2 days in a row is a big step.

If anyone is interested in participating in this event just let me know. I know @spopepro is supposed to come back and I have been discussing with @LilCliffy about this as well. Of course, if you are only I to telemark turn this not the event for you...

I think that will make for a very good tour next year. I did enjoy the beginning and end segments of the second day, but the middle... a mix of untracked snowmobile trails and walking on roads was not the highlight of the event.

I haven't booked anything yet, but the current plan is to head back and attempt my silver-level. I have even talked my wife into coming out to be a tourer. I am going back and forth on if I want to get (another...) pair of skinny metal edge skis to mount with an nnn binding or if I'm just going to roll the dice on the conditions with my track skis. But I really think a BC boot is not the way unless the temps are brutal.

I feel for event organizers. I know they don't want to charge what they do in many cases, but running events has only gotten more expensive. A few years ago land managers around here put more stringent limits on how many participants they would permit for trail races and organizers were forced to double or triple their fees. Reducing some costs and reducing the road walking is a win-win if they can swing it.

spopepro wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:06 pm

I think that will make for a very good tour next year. I did enjoy the beginning and end segments of the second day, but the middle... a mix of untracked snowmobile trails and walking on roads was not the highlight of the event.

I haven't booked anything yet, but the current plan is to head back and attempt my silver-level. I have even talked my wife into coming out to be a tourer. I am going back and forth on if I want to get (another...) pair of skinny metal edge skis to mount with an nnn binding or if I'm just going to roll the dice on the conditions with my track skis. But I really think a BC boot is not the way unless the temps are brutal.

I feel for event organizers. I know they don't want to charge what they do in many cases, but running events has only gotten more expensive. A few years ago land managers around here put more stringent limits on how many participants they would permit for trail races and organizers were forced to double or triple their fees. Reducing some costs and reducing the road walking is a win-win if they can swing it.

@spopepro good to hear from you!

I might as well go for Silver as i did the Bronze in 2021 when the Marathon was « virtual ». It was only 2 days of 50 km but I was on my own with no checkpoint or any assistance. It does make a difference, especially the first day as I ski alone which is quite different from the “real” Marathon when you share the experience with hundreds of other skiers. On the second day I started skiing on our farm with the Ingstad but my friends brought me to my senses and I switched to track skis after a while

If I can help you with your reflexion about the boots… I found a pair of combi boots to match with the MT51 and it really is a good compromise between BC boots and pure track boots. I can imagine your Alaska being too heavy for such a long distance. I know you already have the MR48 and you made it through bad conditions… so I guess they would be fine if you matched them with a combi boot.

If you come and arrive earlier it would be a pleasure to take you around the region.

Take care

@Nitram Tocrut i didn’t realize you were just a kid! Just kidding, but I have a few years on you. I don’t know anything about skiing all those miles, but you’re a farmer, and I’m a construction guy. My work boots are as heavy as my Alaska, I think I wouldn’t feel right in “shoes”. Yes, I take my boots off and put on sandals in the summer, but I think you get from where I speak.
I’m glad this rain is good for farming! I work too long during the week to cut my grass. I really am not enjoying cutting grass every Sunday! It is really cutting into my fishing!
I’m not complaining, I hear the guy in charge of the weather knows what He’s doing.
Peace, and all the best to you and your family.