Fischer Scale Patterns

[lilcliffy]

Split this topic off to a new subject. I expect lots of debate here

I gotta say, the new Offtrack Crown pattern works better in two conditions: crusty, hard snow and cold, dry powder.

I'll also be the first to say that some other scale patterns, like the Omni, don't work well in those conditions either, but the Offtrack really does IME.

Well I hate to disappoint!

I must say that I agree with you!

The Offtrack Crown performs on snow that traditionally renders waxless skis useless.

And in the backcountry, in many XCD contexts, traction can often trump glide.

[Cannatonic]

also the camber of the ski and the wax makes a huge difference too - if you get caught in fresh cold power with no EasyGlide or F4 on your Off-track it can be a nightmare. Going up in length 5-10cm will make the grip pattern behave differently too. no doubt the negative patterns are near useless on ice or granular.

[rongon]

no doubt the negative patterns are near useless on ice or granular.

Generally speaking, I don't find it fun to try to climb on ice or really chunky, refrozen granular. For those situations, I'd rather slap on the climbing skins and relax a little.

[lilcliffy]

Well, we finally got some fresh soft stuff on top of the dense base I have been skiing on for a few weeks. We now have three feet of base.

The beginning of my ski season was cold- but the snow events were warm- so there was lots of cold, icy, refrozen snow to ski on.

Gotta chance to put my grip wax, waxless and easy-skins to the real test.

I must admit that although I do think that Fischer's Offtrack Crown is better than the Omnitrack- they both equally suck when put to the test on icy snow.

NOW- in all fairness, this was most obvious on the E-99- which is a full-on double cambered ski. The lesson? Double-camber plus icy snow = grip wax/klister or climbing skin.

The E-109 has a controllable enough second camber that it greatly outperformed the E99 Crown on icy snow. But the grip wax and the easy-skin both outperformed the waxless.

Where I find that the Offtrack Crown blows the others away is in the domain of grip wax- cold fresh snow (not that the Offtrack outperforms grip wax in this context- because it simply don't).

On warm wet snow- which I had during the first couple of storms- all of the waxless patterns I have perform very well.

[StormyMonday]

Not sure where you live but there was a guy with 189 Outtas on Massachusetts c-list with 3pc bindings for $60 last week. I know this because he also had a smaller pair I bought for my wife Mine get a ton of use and with Mountaineers and Excursions (or Asolos) they turn just fine. Contrary to modern thought I find them very enjoyable in powder too, but they are also some of the fatter skis I own haha..anyways just a psa...

[lilcliffy]

Do you mean the old Outtabounds- sam dimensions as the S-Bound 88? Are they waxable base?

[StormyMonday]

Do you mean the old Outtabounds- sam dimensions as the S-Bound 88? Are they waxable base?

Yes the original Outtabounds. I will PM you the link as I'm not sure it's cool to do in a thread. They were the waxless version 189 cm. I use the same in a 179 for a lot of thicket and hiking trail skiing. I didn't look close at the 189s but the 169s I got for my wife were in really good shape considering the vintage. Will PM link...

[lilcliffy]

So- my week of cold, icy refrozen snow has helped me figure some things out. (Please note: I am ignoring the performance advantages of klister as I BC ski through the Northeast mixedwoods, where forest debris is everywhere.)

1) All of the waxless-scaled skis I have- regardless of whether they are a negative pattern - suck on icy, refrozen snow.

2) In a XC context: on warm wet snow, all of the different waxless-scaled patterns I have tested perform reasonably well.

3) When climbing: flex pattern is the first big factor. Double-cambered skis (e,g, E-99/Glitt/BC70) do not climb as effectively as single-cambered skis. Soft-flexing 1.5-cambered skis (e.g. Eon/E-109/S-78) climb more effectively than stiffer, more cambered skis (e.g. E-99/Glitt/BC70).

4) When climbing: the overall length and position of the scales is the second big factor. For example, the current S-Bound line has waxless scales much further forward than the similar profile Madshus XCDs. For example: I believe that it is the position of the scales that is the largest contributing factor to the greater climbing performance of an S-Bound 98, versus a Madshus Epoch.

This fella's tests and comparisons of the E-109 vs. S-98 produce similar observations- although he does not attribute the greater climbing of the E-109 vs. E-89 to flex pattern, he does notice the longer and further forward scales on the S-98:
http://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=fo ... 6&confID=1
http://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=fo ... 6&confID=1
He observes that the S-98 has a very long grip zone, and very little camber. He oberves that- compared to the E-109- the S-98 has minimal camber.

I believe that the XCD success of the current Fischer Offtrack Crown has much to do with flex pattern + length-position of scales.

The sintered tips/tails of the current Fischer BC Nordic skis is a stroke of pure genius as well. The wax retention and polish I get on the tips/tails of my current scaled E-99/E-109 Crowns, is second to none for a waxless-scaled ski.

[lilcliffy]

I am beginning to think that the Offtrack Crown insert is hydrophobic....

It is the most resistant to icing up, and snow-sticking, of any waxless scales I have ever tested.

[MikeK]

Fischer really did come up with something here. It's hard wearing, low friction, and doesn't seem to absorb water (or anything). I'm convinced most of their good glide with the scaled skis is due to this material.

It probably gives Pelicans cancer... but that's the price we have to pay for scales that work