The end of Voile's 3p binding - RIP

[Johnny]

It's over my friends. It's now official, the binding that once ruled over all the XCD kingdom will no longer be.

The latest 3p bindings from Voile became problematic, as previously discussed here. Mike found what the problem was: the new bails don't go lower than 15mm. All the 3pc binding over the years could accommodate the nordic norm down to 12mm. On their website, they still advertise their bindings like this: "Our 3-pin Cable it has a 3-pin bail height to accommodate a 13-19mm thick duckbill telemark boot." But it turned out they forgot to update the page.

Voile will no longer make their bindings for modern leathers and light XCD boots. I exchanged a few emails with Voile's manufacturing departement. They confirmed what I didn't want to hear:

The binding you are referring to is our old "telemark" SKU:201. This had a bale that could lower to 12mm. We changed that binding a number of years ago to the new "3-pin cable and 3-pin HD mountaineer" SKU: 301 and 202HD. These were updated to accommodate the newer style plastic telemark boots duck bills thickness which is typically around 16-20mm.

95$ for a 3p binding that does not accommodate XCD boots?!? I don't see the point. It's weird because even the old 3pc bindings could fit any of my "newer style" plastic boots perfectly, they didn't need to change anything.

It's the end of an era. I'm so sad they decided to leave NN duckbills behind. They are totally useless for me now. Well, to be honest, I'm more sad to see the whole world is now switching to plastics, buckles and hard stuff. I'm sad to see most people will never feel the bliss of skiing powder with pins and leathers...

RIP Voile 3pc, as we knew it. Thanks for all the crazy years...

[Dongshow]

I always thought the Rottefella Super Telemark was better that either of the two 3 pin NN offerings from Voile. I never really thought the cables on the classic 3 pin cable binding from Voile offered that much other than redundancy for pin pull out, largely remedied because almost all new leather boots have reinforced pin holes.

I've never paid more that $50 dollars for pins of any kind.

[Raventele]

The springy cable in 3PC kicks ass under various circumstances !! It provides both an increase in lateral stiffness and enough added support to allow one to ski with or without pins..And you can survival ski even in the event of bail latch failure..But oh behold the mighty Rott 3pin!!
But Seriously, I am sure it's fine for those with the absolute luxury of either meadow skipping or ONLY skiing not-deep and very soft snow..otherwise, with 0 heel lift resistance, yer going down floppin , bro

[Raventele]

Seriously y'all..The bails can be welded and it would not take but a narrow strip to accomodate the thinner duckbills you are concerened with .. ..whatever the marginal loss in strength due to welding would not even be a consideration..

[MikeK]

I didn't test it but I'm pretty sure the bails have some decent hardness. I wouldn't weld them for a couple reasons, but I doubt anyone would. First off they will most likely crack being as thin as they are. Hardened steels can be preheated to semi-anneal the steel and promote welding but that would most likely warp the bail and certainly ruin what appear to be plastic washers at the pivot. Lastly, if you were to do this without any of the above happening the bail may lose enough strength that it will bend under load. Being a thin stamping as they are, if they were soft it would be fairly easy to bend them in a fall or say with pliers.

And really why would you go through all that work if you could just buy something that would work? No one has confirmed the current ST has the low bail height either.

I also read something else that I forgot about with my HD Mountaineers. My Snowpines wouldn't fit in them. Apparently when they redesigned them and used the thicker aluminum base plate they interfere with certain boots and might be why only they catch on boots like the Alaska. I simply ground my boots with a Dremel until they fit, but I don't think that was an issue with the older Voile or the ST.

[Raventele]

Aluminium not steel..which will weaken, but let's face it, the duckbills y'all are worried about are so thin it would not be an issue .. Also, for what the concerns are, just get any of those really old wire-bail pin bindings.. they give 'em away around here

[MikeK]

Ron, I wasn't aware you were a metallurgist?!?

You are simply wrong, I'm sorry. The bail is steel and unless if you were welding this properly with a TIG you'd not get enough heat into the aluminum plate to hurt it. It's hard enough that it can't be easily be bent with pliers (since you are a metallurgist you should know I'm talking about the increase in yield strength with increased hardness that is typical of steel). You'd also know that heating most steels to a specific temperature below melting and allowing to cool slowly will cause them to temper or anneal, depending on the specifics of the heat treat process and steel alloy. Both tempering and annealing reduce hardness, and therefor both yield and ultimate strength.

If those bails were simply plain old soft mild steel you could easily bend them with pliers and weld them, whatever. They'd also probably bend the first good fall you took and be worthless.

I'd hate to see anyone ruin their bindings by trying to weld them. If anything your first suggestion of building up the duckbill with some shoe goo is probably a better one.

Those wire bail bindings really aren't stiff enough for xcd and I wouldn't trust them for a long backcountry tour.

[Raventele]

Advertising says "Material 6061-T6 Tempered Aluminum" for all new 3pc.. Do you have any of the newest ? I don't think I do either ( 3pin HW does not count, though it's basically the same box etc, I am sure though the cable attachment points are probably farther back on the 3PHW..
I would not trust the old wire bails either, but back in the day ppl actually did..
look, you are trying to grip some really thin duckbills.. A few new globs of metal on the bail should be the least of your concerns..

[MikeK]

Yeah the bottom plate, the part that is anodized is Aluminum.

The bail isn't though, it's steel. So is the latch and the rivets. I think the pins are steel too. A couple tacks might be enough heat to crack the bail, especially as thin as they are.

I know you are trying to help Ron but I don't think the welding is a good idea - just trying to forewarn if anyone decided they might try it.

All mine are the new style.

We used to use the wire bail for xc skiing when I was a kid. I never broke one but back then I also weighed like 100 lbs. Now I'm 200 and skiing on skis that are wider and heavier with boots that are stiffer. I go a lot farther into the woods and ski terrain where I am likely to fall.

[Raventele]

I don't know..but they make no mention of steel in the ads .. as far as the dimensions go, all my 3pc are basically the new ones.. materials I am not sure about..The bails on the 3phw do not look the same as the 3pc re material..
Anyways if a little spot welding is some huge issue ( and I doubt it) how about just heating and bending ?
And if it REALLY is some big deal to achieve this without welding , then just fabricate some thin shims that fit over the pins! You could even try to just toss some simple plates over the pins ..and then, if need be,Work some material off the smile plates! OR ?? Smile plates could be attached to the boots with minimal recessing..maybe..
or thin the smile plates and spot weld them to the box..