narrow double-cambered off-trail xcountry ski

[bgregoire]

I'm a buyer of everything single-camber... Before springtime if possible...
(Can trade for my Super Comps or my XCD-GT... ; )

Sorry for hijacking this great thread... But Cliffy, what's the flatest, least cambered XC ski you ever tried?

Flat and xc. There must be a lower limit at some point. We'll, i'd say the Salomon ADV 89. They have some camber but are VERY soft. I'd actually be open to selling a pair. Another low cambered ski i tried if the Rossi Nepal Telemark ski. It's an older telemark ski, relatively heavy, hardly no camber. What else! HA! The famous voile charger and vector BC. Now those and damn flat. But you wouldn't be interested in something like that now LJ?

[Teleman]

I'll go check out the e109's....They are not double camber....Have been wrong on most anything, even voted for Obama ONCE....Mine are 78-60-70...99's are 65-55-60....with serious double camber and didn't they arc beautifully yesterday on a low angle fielw with fast powder...If I'm right I'll send Ron a couple of pictures...So don't kick him out!!!!!! TM

[Johnny]

Of course not! If I had Vectors, I would have to buy a pair of T4s again and book a room at Gite du Mont Albert to justify my purchase...!

I'm looking for a downhill ski. Flat/alpine camber, but light and skinny like a XC ski. And under 1000$.

Ahahahah! Watch out guys, Teleman is starting the official TT Political World thread!

[lilcliffy]

But Cliffy, what's the flatest, least cambered XC ski you ever tried?

LoveJohnny- just read the posts below- I was about to say the flatest, least cambered "XC" ski I have tried is the Vector BC- but from my perspective the Vector is not a XC ski- it is a straightforward telemark/downhill ski with a waxless traction insert. I would even describe the Vector as having a reverse camber for downhill powder skiing. My friend has two (!!crazy nut!!) pairs of Vectors- one with 3PC, the other with an AT setup. I tried the Vecto/3PC setup with T-4s- there is so little camber in this ski it is MURDER on the flats. However- do they ever climb- even without skins!

I have not tried the Rossignol BC90, BC110, nor the BC125. My impression from reading and discussing with others is that unlike the narrower Rossi BCs (which are double-cambered)- the BC90, BC110 and BC125 are soft and single-cambered. (The BC110 has the exact same profile as the Guide/Annum). Rossi is now claiming that they have redesigned the flex of the BC110&125 to have a "rocker" flex in the shovel (sounds like Fischer's so-called "Nordic Rocker" ). I have not yet read a test to prove the existence of a special nordic rocker. For example the S-112 and the Annum/Guide seem to have the same amount of early tip rise to me- simply due to their single camber (this is similar to MikeK's comparison of the Epoch and S-98).

I have also never tried Alpina's XCD lineup (e.g. X-terrain, Discovery). The new version of the X-Terrain is called the Discovery 110 (110-66-96mm)- talk about parabolic sidecut! The Alpina XCDs start at 68mm shovel up to the 110.

So the flatest, single-cambered XC skis I have tried would have to be the Madshus Annum/Karhu XCD Guide and the Fischer S-Bound 112. IME, the S-112s climb and turn more efficiently than the Annum/Guides. But- I find the Annum/Guides track better in the kick and glide- I believe this has more to do with profile than camber, because the Annum/Guides are by no means "snappy".

You mention looking for a narrow, single-cambered XCD ski- how narrow is narrow? The Eon (83mm shovel) is quite soft, but torsionally rigid. The S-Bound 78 is another good, soft, single-cambered, "narrow" XCD ski.

I am not aware of a single-cambered XCD ski that is narrower than the S-Bound 78..anyone else? The backcountry-xcountry skis narrower than 78mm shovel are all double-cambered (e.g. Glittertind, E99, Rossi BC65/68/70)- as far as I know. I don't know whether the narrower Apina XCDs (e.g. Discovery 68) are single or double-cambered?

[lilcliffy]

I'll go check out the e109's....They are not double camber....Have been wrong on most anything, even voted for Obama ONCE....Mine are 78-60-70...99's are 65-55-60....with serious double camber and didn't they arc beautifully yesterday on a low angle fielw with fast powder...If I'm right I'll send Ron a couple of pictures...So don't kick him out!!!!!! TM

Teleman- what length are your E-99s? I am amazed at your ability to control a double-cambered ski in a downhill turn.

[Teleman]

"L" we grew up on them so to speak. They worked so well in the bush, it just happened as far as turns...But remember they were the cutting edge back in the 80's...My e99's are 205's and Telekid has a set of 185's....Boy does he ever ski them...Two days ago on moderately steep powder with not so good wax on them, they eventually broke free but by then the trees were moving in and drastic, turns were in order and it wasn't pretty....There are conditions where they are the only ski to be on, steep, moderate, or low angle....Other times!!!!!!! TM

[Teleman]

Lcliff...Ron put the picture up on Ski Lite thread....Rebounds and e99's have double camber the 109's camber and a half?....Really thought they had less but they sure ski well....Rebounds and 99' have the double but are so soft as to not even really be aware of it...If however the skis are slow on any given day...(usually a wax miss on the 99's) you sure can feel the ski not wanting to respond...Rebounds having a "bone" bottom is a slow ski unless on the moderate to steep zones....They break free and come around fast....109's are a "fast" ski and come around well in most conditions....TM

[Johnny]

Yeah by narrow I mean something below 70-65mm at the shovel. I'm simply looking for a XC-style ski that I can use for downhill and hardpack purposes only. Maybe the Sbounds 78 would be the best choice...

Oh, you're right, I remember reading that the Rossi BCs were pretty much like alpine skis. I never was into them because of their high price tag and their quite heavy weight for the price. Maybe I should take a look at their narrower skis. Those Rossignol guys are SO funny filing the BC125 and other BC skis under the "Nordic" section... : )

What we need is a super store carrying every single XC ski on the market... A store where we can flex and touch any ski ourselves. There's no such thing around here...

Thanks!

[bgregoire]

Yeah by narrow I mean something below 70-65mm at the shovel. I'm simply looking for a XC-style ski that I can use for downhill and hardpack purposes only. Maybe the Sbounds 78 would be the best choice...

Oh, you're right, I remember reading that the Rossi BCs were pretty much like alpine skis. I never was into them because of their high price tag and their quite heavy weight for the price. Maybe I should take a look at their narrower skis. Those Rossignol guys are SO funny filing the BC125 and other BC skis under the "Nordic" section... : )

What we need is a super store carrying every single XC ski on the market... A store where we can flex and touch any ski ourselves. There's no such thing around here...

Thanks!

Hej LJ, my guess is that that kind of ski you are looking for is no longer being made. Second best would probably be the glittertins no as they are skinny but soft? BUT, here is what i found the KARHU XCD-COMP (62-52-57): single-cambered full-metal edge downhill oriented, perfect for hardpack or so they said:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=KOKNnn ... ki&f=false

Now the funny thing is that a lady was selling hers a while back on Kijiji. Actually she was just selling the bindings thinking no one actually wanted the skis. I bought the skins off of her and could contact her so see if they are still kickings around. Would that fit the bill?

[Johnny]

Oh Benjamin! That would be *AWESOME*!!!! It looks exactly like my dream ski!!!!
Please let me know if the skis are still available!! Please...!!

Karttus XCD-Comps, my new obsession...

Yeah, my Glittertinds are really fun on the groomers, very soft with a nice flex... But they are still double-cambered... In my dreams, I see a super skinny alpine-cambered XC carving ski... ; )

But hey, the topic of this thread is "narrow double-cambered off-trail xcountry ski"... Sorry about that! (I'm kind of new to the Double Camber World... )