Skimo on Teles

[fleish]

I have been cajoled into doing the Gothic Mountain Tour this year and if all goes well, the GT in 2024. I would love to do it without locking down my heel, and without lugging my old TX Pros and Freerides the whole way. I have been lurking on a few of the older threads and have seen good recs on a light tele setup that can be used for these types of races. What I would greatly appreciate is some recommendations on setup, notably skis / bindings. Any help is much appreciated!

Here is what I am thinking:
Boots: F1 Scarpa Race Lemons (lucked into a pair on Craigslist)
Bindings: Voile TTS Tour Bindings (seems like these are the best off the shelf I could use for the weight)
Skis: No idea - this is where I need guidance. I am eyeing Voile Objective BC at 161, but am wide open for recommendations here
Skins: Seems like everyone recommends Pomoca mohair race skins, so I probably will go with the flow there
Mentality: Have a good time out there with my friend

Background on me: I have been teleing in the resort and out of bounds for a little shy of a decade. The last few seasons, I have gotten really into XCD skiing, which is why I am interested in the Objective's.

I am the classic 5'10" 160 lb guy from Colorado if that helps at all with sizing. I currently ski heavy QST 98s on Freedom bindings with TXPro boots downhill and Madshus Annum 78s on NNN bindings with Alpina Alaska boots for adventures in the woods

[bauerb]

I was in your shoes a little over a year ago. I was hell bent on racing Skimo on tele gear....then I read the ISMF rules which require 2 things: a releasable binding and a heel that locks down. the only setup for tele that complies with those rules are Meidjo and Crispi. ( hint: your heel equipment must be lockable, but rules don't say you have to actually lock the heel during competition)...and oh yeah, no mix-matched bindings are allowed.

btw, disregard everything I just said if your races have a heavy-metal division, a specifically tele division, or the race in general does not follow ISMF rules....you should prob check though. I race the Pro division in ISMF sanctioned events so I have to follow all of their rules

I've seen people mounting tele bindings on Atomic UL78's ( the fatter brother of the UL65s I ski on). very light gear for tele.

finally, make darn sure you get those used boots to fit as best you can. heel slip will bring you a world of hurt( ask me how I know)

finally-er: Pomoca Race Pro or Colltex mohair will be fine. put 20k of vert on them before you race them,

[spopepro]

I think the objective is a good casual skimo ski. If the boots fit, you're golden there.

Bindings I personally think is the tough choice. You have to decide how you're going to ski stuff and what you're wanting to do in the transitions. The one tele skimo race i've done to this point I did with my objectives and 3pins, no cables figuring this was as light as I could get and transitions would be pretty fast. I was good on the uphill... I could not ski the downhill and ended up just about DFL because of very steep icy sections which seem to be the norm on many race courses. I know people laugh about how out of control and silly skimo racers are going down with the gear they run... but I really worry that very light tele is worse than very light AT gear for challenging snow and slope situations. Of course... your mileage may vary.

bauerb here and bobby at the earn your turns forum probably have much better insight if you're dedicated to this idea. Personally... I didn't end up so in love with it that I wanted to force it to work.

[spopepro]

Although... I will say if the goal is the GT... I've often wondered about that race with a patterned base ski and tele/nordic bindings. I know to be at the front one would need to skate, but it's more an xcd race anyway than a pure skimo race.

[bauerb]

a couple of US Ski Team guys skied the Grand Traverse on racing skate skis not too long ago. they did well but it happened to snow before the race or they likely would have won. yup, the best skimo racers in the world look like advanced beginners descending but: its actually an advanced skimo technique that results in bombing downhill on the last 6" of your ski tails, these guys will go 60mph and not fall...but it looks insane because it is. Skimo races are run on the hardest trails of ski resorts...stuff that most people want burly all-mountain gear for, but we do it on glorified XC skis...its terrifying . my theory is the goal is to keep the "mo" in "skimo". without the Mo, skimo is basically a fitness contest that elite runners, nordic skiers etc could all enter. the crazy descents are the gate-keepers of the sport....as if Skimo suffered from being too popular

[JohnSKepler]

I did a Skimo race last weekend on Falketind 62 with Xplore bindings and Alfa Free boots. If there's any piece of advice I'd pass on it is @bauerb 's tip to make sure you don't have any heel slip. I figured out my Free's earlier in the year but only after I gave myself a really bad blister.

Secondly, I was the only person skiing tele in the race and I'm quite new to tele skiing. It sounds like you're way ahead of me there. I do like the Xplore binding but it just wasn't enough for the downhill, which was steeper and really chopped up by the time I got there. I'd never skied anything quite like that before and fell forward a few times. I'd only ever skied anything that aggressive Alpine style with locked heels. I doubt you'll have this problem if you're been doing this for a decade. I'd only been doing it since November. That said, try to find and ski terrain as technical as the race. Maybe not as much, but definitely in degree.

Third, I had to change the configuration of my skis a day before the race and didn't get a chance to thoroughly test it. Because it was so cold (4 deg F at race start) I stripped my tip-to-tail polar wax and went with glide wax and polar only under foot, that I covered up with an Xskin. The loss of the tip-to-tail polar affected my grip, even with the skin, and made the ascents a lot harder than they needed to be.

There were a lot of people skiing Atomic UL65 and 78 out there, as well as a lot of Scarpa boots. If nothing else, they are popular. I'm not sure they were the Race Lemons but they were the majority of what I saw. However, I'm not entirely sure how you're going to Telemark in boots with no toe bellows. This is, undoubtedly a lack of understanding on my part so when I ask that, it's an honest question. I'm really interested in how this works because I might do it at some point.

[JB TELE]

[Nick BC]

I I'm not sure they were the Race Lemons but they were the majority of what I saw. However, I'm not entirely sure how you're going to Telemark in boots with no bellows

I think he’s talking about the older Scarpa F1 AT boots with bellows. Scarpa discontinued them I guess, because of liability fears of pre release in tech bindings if you didn’t use the puck.

[fleish]

Although... I will say if the goal is the GT... I've often wondered about that race with a patterned base ski and tele/nordic bindings. I know to be at the front one would need to skate, but it's more an xcd race anyway than a pure skimo race.

Thanks for the great advice here @spopepro - I am wondering if I am making it too complicated as well. For the Gothic Tour at least, I keep looking at the map and it does seem more like an XCD race which is what makes me want to stick to teleing. Originally, I went into a Cripple Creek Backcountry with my XCD setup to see if they thought I could do the race in that and they said absolutely not for the downhill, which you are echoing. I am trying to figure out what it would take for me to survive the downhill, while still staying light.

At this point my stubbornness is getting to me and I just want to try it on a tele setup. The main thing I need to get a feel for is since I have the F1s, how burly to make the ski and binding setup to make it donw.

[fleish]

Thanks for such a detailed reply @baurb. Actually what got me to post here was a thread you started a while back asking about a tele setup for a race - I followed your journey there and it was super informative: https://www.backcountrytalk.com/forum/b ... kimo-setup

It is good to know that most of the ISMF races don't allow a lightweight tele setup. I had blinders on to the Gothic Tour and GT, but it's good to know if I get more into it I will be limited.

The advice on the boots, skins, and skis to check out is amazing - I will start logging laps with updated skins (I am going with Pomoca's) ASAP.

I guess the big question I have is do you ever think about skiing alpine vs. tele in these races / events or are you just focused on getting up and down as fast as possible? I want to stay true to my skiing passion, but it definitely is more complicated due to the lack of commercialization of tele race skis.

I was in your shoes a little over a year ago. I was hell bent on racing Skimo on tele gear....then I read the ISMF rules which require 2 things: a releasable binding and a heel that locks down. the only setup for tele that complies with those rules are Meidjo and Crispi. ( hint: your heel equipment must be lockable, but rules don't say you have to actually lock the heel during competition)...and oh yeah, no mix-matched bindings are allowed.

btw, disregard everything I just said if your races have a heavy-metal division, a specifically tele division, or the race in general does not follow ISMF rules....you should prob check though. I race the Pro division in ISMF sanctioned events so I have to follow all of their rules

I've seen people mounting tele bindings on Atomic UL78's ( the fatter brother of the UL65s I ski on). very light gear for tele.

finally, make darn sure you get those used boots to fit as best you can. heel slip will bring you a world of hurt( ask me how I know)

finally-er: Pomoca Race Pro or Colltex mohair will be fine. put 20k of vert on them before you race them,