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This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips / Telemark Francais Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web since 1998. East, West, North, South, Canada, US or Europe, Backcountry or not.
This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
Ditching Mandarin class allows time to look at Chilean mountaineering forces. Those guys look hardcore.
Hate to contradict (again!) – however, the chaps in the Pied Piper costumes are not Chilean, but Spanish. That little logo “Ejército de Tierra” on the bottom left of your second picture is the logo of the Spanish Army. The soldier in the third picture is using a German rifle (H&K G36). The Chilean military don’t use that rifle. I can’t say anything definite about the first picture.
The Spanish mountain troops appear to be currently using at least two different types of skis, but the bindings (Fritschi) and boots (Garmont) seem to be in common.
Don’t think so. Pictures taken by Chilean Army at their training centre. At the time, they were training US Forces. Included the caption, which was edited out of the photo first posted because it was superfluous.
The 3rd Mountain Division (captioned) is the Chilean Army’s only mountain formation. PL Prensa is the national press service of Chile.
If you don’t believe that, then the US Forces photos on DVIDS are incorrectly labelled too…
The weapon shown in the top photo of this post is a Swiss SIG, which is one of the primary infantry weapons of the Chilean army (Israeli Gallil is another, but the flash eliminator and front sight of the Israeli weapon is different… longer barrel, Picatinny rail etc). The Chilean Army is also equipped with the HK G36.
In another of the other photos, you can see that the rucksack covers are the same cam pattern as the above photo.
The Ghillie suit is an optional dress for high altitudes for Chile’s Mountain Div. Very distinctive. No Ghillie suits for rucksacks though. LOL.
These were all the things considered before posting. So… Sticking to my original post because everything points to Chile on this one… two independent official sources (US military and Chilean media), image captioning, weapons, location, manner of dress.
The logo on one of the photos only means that the story made the Spanish military press. Countries reporting on other nations military maneuvers happens all the time. So don’t draw any conclusions on the boots and bindings used by Spanish troops… because these are Chilean troops.
So… Sticking to my original post because everything points to Chile on this one…
……and so am I, because everything points to Spain on this one. The Pied Pipers in these pictures are troops of the Spanish infantry regiment Galicia 64 de Cazadores de Montaña.
Galicia is in Spain – other geographical uses of the name are historical.
The logo seen is of the Spanish Land Army (Ejércio de Tierra español):
The exercise took place in Ampriu, a ski resort in the Spanish Pair-of-Knees
(use the scroll-bar at the bottom of the picture series to reveal the name):
……and if all of that is not enough for you, have a look at the shoulder-patch on this uniform and tell us what flag it is:
The troops in this exercise were observed wearing two different models of ski-boots, of which Garmont can be positively identified. The bindings are unmistakably Fritschi Diamir and the skis appear to be Dynastar, which are manufactured in Spain, as well as in France.
US and Chilean reporters were THERE. They reported the pics as being of Chilean forces. You’re arguing against them, not me.
As for equipment, Chile doesn’t have a ski manufacturing industry, so it follows that they’d use skis from any number of countries.
Regardless, it keeps going back to the reporting agencies. The Chilean press says it’s 3rd Mountain. DVIDS says it’s Chile. USSOUTHCOM says it’s Chile. The Chilean Army says it’s their troops.
All show soldiers, weapons, and uniforms that line up (Spain doesn’t use SIG 556, both use H&K G36 which is one of the most widely distributed assault rifles in the world… behind various AK and M16 derived designs). All agree. All are in a better position than either of us to report where they were, who they saw, etc.
Like this one, on the 3rd Division specifically, which shows Chilean troops wearing the same cam smock you attribute exclusively to Spain.
Or a post from the Chilean Army on their Facebook page…
You’d think the Chilean Army would know what their troops wear, wouldn’t you?
There’s also this photo. Surely things aren’t so bad in Spain that their mountain force has defected and is now saluting the flag of Chile?
Spain might have the same smocks… can’t dismiss that possibility without evidence to the contrary.. but there’s ample photographic and documentary evidence indicating that Chilean forces appear to possess two patterns of alpine smock, one alpine battle dress… one of which has been the topic of this sidebar discussion.
The Chilean manners of dress are seen individually and together, in various combinations. This suggests sub Formation dress norms. Makes sense given that there are various specialist groups in 3 Div… infantry, artillery, logistics etc) each with their own identities.
Can’t speak to individual troops wandering about. Instructors, advisors, visitors often mingle… plus, there is an association between the mountain schools in Europe and the Americas. But for forces shown on skis in my photos… Chilean. Zero doubt. The weight of evidence supports it.
US and Chilean reporters were THERE. They reported the pics as being of Chilean forces.
……then they must have spent most of their time in the bar, instead of out on the mountain making notes and taking photographs. They must also have a remarkable ignorance of geography, as the “THERE” (your capitals) is the ski resort of Ampriu, in the valley of Benasque, which is in the province of Huesca…..in the north of SPAIN. I have posted a picture in which the name and logo of the resort are clearly visible – go and look it up.
I also posted the name of the regiment – how about looking that up as well?
Again, the visible logo is of the Land Army of SPAIN – not Chile.
The shoulder-patch which I indicated, and which you disparagingly referred to as being blurred, or something similar (remark subsequently deleted), is clear enough to make out the red-yellow-red stripes of the flag of SPAIN, not Chile.
Like this one, on the 3rd Division specifically, which shows Chilean troops wearing the same cam smock you attribute exclusively to Spain.
Would you kindly enlighten us by quoting the passage where I attributed the camouflage overall to being used EXCLUSIVELY by Spain? I note also that you have, after numerous edits, posted a new series of pictures which apparently have no connection to the original ones (apart from the similarity of the overalls). This is akin to “shifting the goalposts”. I have no idea where the newer pictures were taken, but the discussion evolved as a result of the pics which you originally posted, claiming them to be of Chilean soldiers (The first one could possibly be, but the next two are not!).
I have pointed out a number of inaccuracies in your posts on this thread, all of which you subsequently corrected, but you seem to be stubbornly determined to cling on to this one. Afraid of losing face, perhaps?
Those pictures were taken from a promotional video of the Land Army of SPAIN.
The video reveals considerable detail concerning the ski equipment used by a regiment of the SPANISH Land Forces, and I have already mentioned the discernible detail in a previous post. It is therefore relevant to the topic of military skiing equipment. I await, with bated breath, your pictures and equipment details of SPANISH ski troops, when you eventually present them on your list.
Please don’t challenge me to labour the point by engaging any further in this discussion – I get a sore head just looking at those bloody Pied Piper overalls (especially in the video).
My final word: The soldiers which I have stated to be Spanish are indeed SPANISH, not Chilean.
Last edited by Jurassien on Mon Jul 03, 2023 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Started this thread because there are lots of bullshit about what skis militaries are using or not using. Yes, numerous edits. Go where the data takes me. All in the name of adding to the knowledge base instead of defending the indefensible.
Off hand comments like people were in the bar instead of on the hill are objectively ignorant. If they were in the bar, wouldn’t there be bottles or grappa or Jaegermeister in the background? Obviously, they were on the hill. Some of them were serving military members (their name and rank are included for some of the photos) who can distinguish between forces better than any of us. So give credit where it’s due… they’re out there doing it.
Your first critique was that they couldn’t be Chileans because they were armed with H&K G36. This was incorrect. Chile does have G36s in their inventory. You also highlighted the logo in a picture… interesting for sure, but not conclusive, Anyone can find photos of Russians with a CNN logo… doesn’t mean they’re American. You did highlight a shoulder patch… could be a Spanish flag. Awfully fuzzy… zoomed, sharpened that image a few times. The video link would have helped but you didn’t give it.
Same colors used on the Chilean 3 Div badge. But it was on the left shoulder, where most national flags are worn. So considered it. Not conclusive though.
You can work from the troops to the skis, or from the skis to the troops. Either approach works. Banging on about what ski hill they’re on or what may or may be on their shoulder flash is meaningless in the context of “Military Ski Master List”. So if you have a point that has anything to do with skis (brand, model, length, construction method, markings etc.), please make it. Happy to update the list with quality data on skis, as has been done many times in this discussion.
Just trying to keep things focused and factual. Lots of rabbit holes and distractions out there, which explains why a list like this has never been compiled in the past (despite the frequent discussions about military skis). Don’t give a flying fuck about “face”.
Want to give credit to all the nations whose troops are out on the slopes… not just US, or English speaking countries, or Western Europe, or NATO. This happens too much already in America, where our view can be a little inward focused.
Back to the subject at hand… skis. Continuing investigations into Chilean military skis. Including captions for utmost clarity.
Some better photos found, which is good news. The bad news is that the combat skis have no markings whatsoever. More investigation required to positively identify these skis. Best candidate at the moment is Voile Ultra Vector BC White but the base on the Chilean ski is black ptex, not white. Plan form matches up pretty well. The Charger has lower rocker to match the Chilean ski, but its new for 2023… and photos of the Chilean ski go back earlier than that.
Ranger trekking poles by Masters clearly shown. Yes, sometimes it helps to check ski pole manufacturers because militaries can award contracts for “ski systems” (as the US did with Asnes on the Combat NATO ski buy). Regrettably, the company “Masters” makes poles only, not skis. So that road is a dead end.
The ski is similar to the one shown in this 2021 photo… wide, low camber, limited rocker, squared tip. (1st, 2nd skiers are American… in mixed combat clothing. LOL. Chileans are 3rd, 4th in line.)
There’s also a good photo with a student on Volkl skis (possibly Volkl Kanjo). It was taken during a special course at their mountain warfare center. The problem is that “training” skis tend to be commercial off the shelf, not the same as combat skis. Explains the dark color and oversized logo, which is out of character with gear used operationally by the Chilean military. So can’t, in good conscience, include them on the list.
@fisheater … check the second post of the master list. Tentatively put a Voile “on the list”. If that’s your brand, you might recognize something. Happy to take this ski off the list if my eyes are playing tricks. Let me know what you think…
At the moment, it’s being used as a parking lot for photos of skis pending identification. Necessary to add pages due to forum posting limitations. Lots of photos, file space requirements quickly add up.
New listing… Fischer Outback 68 ski, Denmark, Sirius Dog Sled Patrol (elite unit of the Danish Navy)
18 skis positively identified. 3 partial identifications. Skis of military or paramilitary forces of 16 nations (Austria, Canada, Chile, China, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Norway, Poland, Russia, Switzerland, UK, US) fully or partially identified.
Only two skis on the list so far appear to be available only to military forces, leaving 16 with civilian equivalents available for purchase on the retail or private (used or surplus) market. This results in remarkable opportunities for individuals wishing to purchase skis that demonstrably meet military service requirements for things like strength, durability, flexibility, and suitability for a broader range of use, terrain and weather conditions than other recreational skis.
