Telemark Technique

[phoenix]

"After perusing the forum for a few days it's obvious to me who has an attitude."

And sadly, his rant has been playing on loop here for several months.

[Manney]

Would you like examples… quotes from others’ posts in their own words? (Don’t worry… the quotes will only be from geezers who go from newbie to PSIA Armchair Level III Instructor).

Or is my pointing out THAT reality the elephant in the room?

[tkarhu]

My problem is with geezers who overrate their ability and presume to tell others what to do, what to use, what to aspire to. These are the tone deaf ones, which anyone knows who actually understands what the term “ok boomer” means. (It’s attitudinal.)

Skiing is athletics. Whatever level of athleticism ppl gained in their 20s isn’t improved by falling off bar stools at the union hall for decades before resuming the sport. There’s no sense arguing that point, so geezers move onto describing tele as “art” or some other nonsense when their claims of athletic excellence are questioned on a rational level.

The “experience” thing is mostly a crock of $hit too… unless one gains fresh insight from an expanding waistline and years of poor diet choices. But when this is challenged, the refrain changes again…

“ If conditions were always perfect, most of us would probably be fine still skiing leather boots. If your goal is to have fun making turns, you'll have more fun more of the time skiing plastic boots and alpine skis.”

Oh wait, it’s fun. Yeah, that must be it. Explains a lot… young ppl think it’s fun to test limits, whereas geezers mostly have fun on gear that is harder to fall over on. Because since when was skiing *ever* about perfect conditions? Perfect conditions are a pleasant accident. Their absence doesn’t stop anyone from skiing. Unless they’re a geezer, then they buy more $hit from REI or telemarkdown until their out of shape form starts to resemble a Pakistani jingle truck.

This is why geezer preaching isn’t going to advance the sport… or entice younger ppl into the sport. It’s attitudinal. Hence “ok boomer”.

And yes, plastic boots and wide alpine skis are a compensating measure. Young people use these things for real AT. Geezers use them for low angle sessions of shorter and shorter duration. But when discussion switches to light gear, the geezers reject that. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why…

Not talking old, ski and trail hardened, men and women. They’re not geezers. They’re OG tele guys still seeking challenges because their feet don’t ache after skiing for 5 miles and they don’t fall off their pins because snow conditions change at the bottom of a hill. They’ve build the necessary leg, ankle, and foot strength over decades of continuous physical challenge. They might get a little winded after a climb, but they still do it because they’re OG tele guys. They’re still in the game.

This is not the same as geezers, who would feel they’re having a stroke or heart attack if they approached their age-maximum heart rates. They stopped the game before their break from skiing. They never got back in the game because they didn’t redress their decline in fitness in intervening decades. Easier to gear up and become a blow hard by telling everyone else how to ski.

@Manney To answer your question, the above words feel intolerant. Of course that was an answer to a question, but I think everybody should feel welcome here, even ageing and disabled people.

If Voile only sold skis to ppl climbing hills, not riding chairs, that company would cease to exist. No disrespect to the company or it’s skis, but a realistic statement on recreational skiing as a whole.

However, I agree with and like the last paragraph of your message.

[Manney]

Geezerism is attitudinal, not chronological or physical. Chronology or physicality come into play when the advice is reduced to a boring old boomer stereotype.

60YO+ Geezer —> 30YO novice: “You must start with plastic boots, AT skis on groomed hills”.

Lots of tone deafness at play, which is why “ok boomer” is so fitting.

Old school tele skills were never developed in plastic boots (factable*). The physicality of tele always involved the tour, climb because old school practitioners rejected where DH was in the 60s —> 80s. DH has become even more artificial since then, removed from nature, including the snow and the boutique features used to justify even higher pass prices. So the social drivers for real tele remain as true today as they did 50 years ago.

Meanwhile, BC gear has gotten so damned good that there’s no reason why anyone with the most modest skills can’t start in today’s leather boots, AT-esque skis, modern bindings.

So what the geezers are really falling back on is “do as I say, not as I did”. That’s the charitable view. The less-than-charitable view is that they quickly switched to big gear after returning to the sport… because their skills and physical abilities had faded so much with age (factable*) that they couldn’t cope any other way. No crime in that. The crime is equating their 60+ circumstance to a skier half their age, which is ridiculous.

Truth is that geezers never mastered tele. They played around with it, quit for a few decades, came back to it as near-retirement hobby. Now they’re holding court on the basis of a bunch of bs that’s limited by dubious skills, old age and faded athleticism.

The OG telemarkers walked the walk. Any one of them would unreservedly say to start light, build skills, charge hard, skip the lifts etc.

Between these two realities, maybe it’s better if we let people find their own way in the sport. Answer their Qs without prescribing an approach on “how to ski” or offering views on other skiers’ skills.

(Factable*) is something which can be verified outside this post.

[mca80]

"Verifiable" is the correct term. "Factable" is a word you made up. But here I am being a 43 year old geezer ;p

But seriously, verification is an important component in philosophy of science though we could get sidetracked bigly discussing verification vs falsification and Popper and the like.

Anyway, "So the social drivers for real tele remain as true today as they did 50 years ago." Absolutely. Yet the one's who, in my experience, have attitude and intolerance issues are the ones on the latest tech costing upwards of 2, 3000 and only ride lifts, against those on light gear doing it their own way. Just my subjective 2 cents this last bit, but I stode up to a demo booth in leathers and nnnbc and was treated with condescension and an elite attitude (probably friends of connyro). And those were young neckbeard types.

[mca80]

"It’s easy to be a Tele Hero on Hero Snow with xcd. Much more difficult/impossible in crap conditions. Burly gear is the great equalizer.
I suspect that’s why a lot of us have gone to a lightweight BC set-up like said Objectives, plastic boots and bindings with heel/DB engagement for xcD."

I have no interest in "equalizing" anything, i.e. making it simpler for unskilled people to appear as if they have skill.

If guy says it's so easy I would certainly like to see him run some easy groomers half as good as telehiro does.

[Manney]

"Verifiable" is the correct term. "Factable" is a word you made up. But here I am being a 43 year old geezer ;p

But seriously, verification is an important component in philosophy of science though we could get sidetracked bigly discussing verification vs falsification and Popper and the like.

Anyway, "So the social drivers for real tele remain as true today as they did 50 years ago." Absolutely. Yet the one's who, in my experience, have attitude and intolerance issues are the ones on the latest tech costing upwards of 2, 3000 and only ride lifts, against those on light gear doing it their own way. Just my subjective 2 cents this last bit, but I stode up to a demo booth in leathers and nnnbc and was treated with condescension and an elite attitude (probably friends of connyro). And those were young neckbeard types.

Ha ha. Yeah. Factable used all the time in our Gen. Doesn’t make it a real word tho (reason for the *).

The whole elite skier gear thing is messed up @mca80. Not age or even income related… just guys “selling” something… their own rep, ego, a certain ski, etc. etc.

It’s all bs… the carbon fibre mullet crew. Business in the front, party in the back, and “lightweight” in between.

[Lhartley]

"Verifiable" is the correct term. "Factable" is a word you made up. But here I am being a 43 year old geezer ;p

But seriously, verification is an important component in philosophy of science though we could get sidetracked bigly discussing verification vs falsification and Popper and the like.

Anyway, "So the social drivers for real tele remain as true today as they did 50 years ago." Absolutely. Yet the one's who, in my experience, have attitude and intolerance issues are the ones on the latest tech costing upwards of 2, 3000 and only ride lifts, against those on light gear doing it their own way. Just my subjective 2 cents this last bit, but I stode up to a demo booth in leathers and nnnbc and was treated with condescension and an elite attitude (probably friends of connyro). And those were young neckbeard types.

The neckbeard types were working the demo booth? Interesting sales tactic

[mca80]

Yeah they were too cool for me, for sure. I guess that's a strategy to bring young people into the sport, I dunno. I got interested in telemark primarily because I just wanted to go nordic skiing in more extreme terrain than 40 ft hills or flats, and if I ever ventured back toward NM or the western mtns, that terrain too, albeit probably seeking easier routes down since I am on light gear for travel efficiency.

[Lhartley]

I just find it ironic because i guarantee that's the "reeeeeeee you're killing telemark cUs yOu bUy dAtEd gEaR" crowd