Alfa Skaget Xplore boot disintegrate

[telerat]

I also have wear, especially at the inner sides, and have cut away the loose rubber. I assume much of it has come from hiking on gravel and asphalt, but they have also been used for biking, driving car and ice skating in addition to skiing.

I think that this is unfortunately a result of the Xplore sole construction. If you see closely you see that there is a rubber sole glued to the midsole that stops just behind the toe, while the midsole with the pins is exposed at the toe. The pin mechanism is placed quite close to the bottom of the sole, so the material there is thin. I assume this is to limit the sole height/thickness. I have believed from I first saw it, that the proper rubber sole should have continued past the pin mechanism and up on the ramp on the front, as it feels more resistant to wear than the midsole and could have been replaced when worn. It also feels like it have a bit more friction than the midsole.

I will see how it fares in the long run, but I bought a spare pair of Skaget when they where 50% off this spring as I am very satisfied with the boots so far and if anything fails I still have boots that work.

Edit: Most wear was on the inner sides, not outer. I believe it is from hiking on gravel and asphalt, and pushing forward each step.

[mca80]

And those who decided to wait were called tinfoil hat types.

[Stephen]

And those who decided to wait were called tinfoil hat types.

You Tinfoil Hatter.
Just kidding — couldn’t resist!


But, yeah, that is a bit concerning.

[Inspiredcapers]

Took some time today to check my Xplore boots in all my Xplore bindings, nothing alarming seems to be going on.

[Jurassien]

And those who decided to wait were called tinfoil hat types.

I just went quickly to the mirror to check that my tinfoil hat is still on.

As member telerat has alluded to, Nordic touring boots are not just something that you change into after you’ve driven your car to where the snowplough stopped and then wear for a couple of hours scooting about on the snow. Touring boots should stand up to a fair amount of walking on asphalt/gravel. I’ve often had to bail out of tours, for whatever reason, and found myself legging it along roads, rough and smooth, far away from the planned destination. Vibram soles handle that well. The bar on the NNN BC can be protected by using some types of pull-over spikes/cleats and the BC soles are otherwise quite sturdy. Ski-touring boots should be made for walking – not just for skiing.

@telerat: You state that the wear is on the outer sides, but the photo gives the impression that it is on the inner sides – or are the boots the other way round in the picture?

I’m sorry to see folks having such problems with the Xplore boots, but thankful to them for pointing this out, as I’m still on the fence regarding this system. Reports like these, after real-world varied usage, say a lot more than watching a video of someone effusing over something that they’ve just taken out of a box.

[Rodbelan]

And those who decided to wait were called tinfoil hat types.

I just went quickly to the mirror to check that my tinfoil hat is still on.

As member telerat has alluded to, Nordic touring boots are not just something that you change into after you’ve driven your car to where the snowplough stopped and then wear for a couple of hours scooting about on the snow. Touring boots should stand up to a fair amount of walking on asphalt/gravel. I’ve often had to bail out of tours, for whatever reason, and found myself legging it along roads, rough and smooth, far away from the planned destination. Vibram soles handle that well. The bar on the NNN BC can be protected by using some types of pull-over spikes/cleats and the BC soles are otherwise quite sturdy. Ski-touring boots should be made for walking – not just for skiing.

@telerat: You state that the wear is on the outer sides, but the photo gives the impression that it is on the inner sides – or are the boots the other way round in the picture?

I’m sorry to see folks having such problems with the Xplore boots, but thankful to them for pointing this out, as I’m still on the fence regarding this system. Reports like these, after real-world varied usage, say a lot more than watching a video of someone effusing over something that they’ve just taken out of a box.

I Totally agree!

[Tom M]

I thought I'd just add another data point. Here is the wear on my Alfa Free's (red sole) and Alfa Vista (black sole). I track all my ski outings with a Garmin GPS. Last year was my first year skiing the Vista, and the Free's have a couple of season's use. I don't keep track of the mileage on each boot, but I log my plastic boot skiing, skate skiing, and downhill skiing in a different category, and my Garmin log shows that last season I XC skied these two boots 227 miles.

This wear is all from skiing as I don't hike in the boots (other than the short distance from the car to the trailhead). Based on the wear that I'm seeing on other people's boots, it looks like the sole material is not very abrasion resistant, so it would not be a good idea to do much off ski hiking with these boots. The wear on @Telerat boots is interesting in the fact that the sole has worn down enough that the pin cylinder is starting to show. Has anyone dissected the Xplore sole to expose the components that make up the Xplore connector? If the sole gets too thin, I wonder how hard it would be to rip the cylinder out of the boot. Inquiring minds want to know.

[telerat]

...
telerat: You state that the wear is on the outer sides, but the photo gives the impression that it is on the inner sides – or are the boots the other way round in the picture?
....

I might be wrong on the side, but can not check before coming home later this evening, so I will update then. Any boot will show wear from use and it might be cosmetic and/or functional. It remains to be seen if it is functional on Xplore, but it does not look nice. I assume the spring pin mechanism has some anchor in the middle sole, as I think the little rubber covering it would not have sufficient strength.

I did have trouble with the binding on my second pair of boots the other day when ice skating. There was some wear/loose rubber around the pins that I think might have prevented the pins from properly seating as both skates came off after a short distance, but not immediately as before (~10% of the times if I forget to verify that they are properly seated). They worked fine for the rest of the tour though. I have previously taken a round file to the binding on my skates to try if I can help guide the pins into the holes, as there is a small part on the Xplore binding where there is no guidance for the pins and they can thus miss the holes. This could also have caused the problem, but I trimmed the loose rubber around the pins with a knife afterwards to try to avoid it happening again. I have only used the boots once afterwards (on skis), so it remains to be seen if it reappears.

I think the missing guidance for the pins completely into the holes and the exposed midsole/missing rubber sole are the two mistakes Rottefella did with Xplore. The high price of the binding (and some boots) are also point against Xplore, so if you have functioning 75mm or NNN-BC boots/skis that you are happy with, there are not many great reasons to switch to Xplore. I do however think it is a better system than both NNN-BC and 75mm for xcd skiing, but will see if the spring pin mechanism gets completely exposed with use and looks more like NNN-BC. I much prefer to have rubber here for general use, instead of the a NNN toe or a duckbill. We will see if Rottefella eventually launches a toe protector for Xplore or changes the design.

[Jurassien]

Based on the wear that I'm seeing on other people's boots, it looks like the sole material is not very abrasion resistant, so it would not be a good idea to do much off ski hiking with these boots. The wear on @Telerat boots is interesting in the fact that the sole has worn down enough that the pin cylinder is starting to show.

Surely it’s not the sole proper which is being abraded? Correct me if this is a false impression, but the actual “sole” (the red part on your Alfa Free) appears to be bonded to the mid-section and could, theoretically, be removed/replaced if worn down. However, the channel for the pins is moulded directly into the mid-section and I don’t see how that could be replaced, as the boot-upper is bonded directly to it.

The more the plastic surrounding the pin cylinder is abraded, the more likely a pull-out of the entire cylinder, considering the forces coming to bear on that point.

[lilcliffy]

Photos of Alaska XP-
used periodically during 2022-2023 winter-
approximately 200kms on these:

Some of the photos in this thread- incl the OP- are a little freaky...

Note- that-
yes- I have worn these boots to drive to and from trailhead-
no- I have not done any hiking with these boots.
.............
FWIW-
I have done serious damage to both NN (ie 3pin Vibram) and NNNBC soles- using them as hiking boots. As a rule- I don't.
.............
I have been playing with the boot binding interface for a couple of days- without the flexor, so that I can clearly see the boot binding interface through rotation-

some observations:
- the outsole clears the binding plate- no friction there
- the Alaska XP outsole has a raised rim on the bottom side of the spring-pin- that likely does rub on the binding interface

I wonder what that raised rim is intended for, and whether that is part of the problem?

NOTE- that my new Crispi XP boot do not have this raised rim...
I am just curious, whether the friction here could cause the outsole to crack...
One could trim that off with a utility knife on a new boot...

Anyhoo-
Whatever is causing this wear in some boots- I dunno and donut want it...
Not going to use my XP boots for hiking...