Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
During our crappy season this year I managed to look at and try on the Madshus Panorama Xplore boots and was surprised how laterally stiff the minimal looking cuffs were, I suspect at least up there with my old Scarpa Tele Tours, and with a much stiffer sole. I'm thinking these could be the basis for my next touring setup, abandoning plastic tele boots - good riddance!
Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to try anything Xplore; it's still pretty scarce here as yet. What I'm wondering is how wide and stiff a ski I can get away with before edge hold on firmer stuff is a problem. My suspicion is that while S-Bound 98s might be okay in powder - which we never have here - on crust or ice they'd probably be a recipe for sore feet and a lack of control.
In another thread the Åsnes Ingstad skis were said to be good in soft snow, but not so much in firmer conditions. I suspect anything much wider would be a problem a lot of the time here with non-plastic boots, but I'm guessing. FWIW temps here are usually near freezing, rarely much below, so we tend to get wet snow and it metamorphoses quickly into crust, ice or corn most of the time. So, edge bold is important, but float in (nonexistent) dry snow is not.
Anyone have theories on what skis might work or not given the snow conditions and Xplore boots and bindings? I'd prefer wider, more sidecut and turnier as long as edging is still possible; it wasn't with Atomic Rainiers and midweight Salomon XA boots when things got icy, instead the boot soles just twisted until the skis were flat on the snow.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to try anything Xplore; it's still pretty scarce here as yet. What I'm wondering is how wide and stiff a ski I can get away with before edge hold on firmer stuff is a problem. My suspicion is that while S-Bound 98s might be okay in powder - which we never have here - on crust or ice they'd probably be a recipe for sore feet and a lack of control.
In another thread the Åsnes Ingstad skis were said to be good in soft snow, but not so much in firmer conditions. I suspect anything much wider would be a problem a lot of the time here with non-plastic boots, but I'm guessing. FWIW temps here are usually near freezing, rarely much below, so we tend to get wet snow and it metamorphoses quickly into crust, ice or corn most of the time. So, edge bold is important, but float in (nonexistent) dry snow is not.
Anyone have theories on what skis might work or not given the snow conditions and Xplore boots and bindings? I'd prefer wider, more sidecut and turnier as long as edging is still possible; it wasn't with Atomic Rainiers and midweight Salomon XA boots when things got icy, instead the boot soles just twisted until the skis were flat on the snow.
Thanks for any suggestions.
- tkarhu
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:58 am
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- Ski style: XCD | Nordic ice skating | XC | BC-XC
- Favorite Skis: Gamme | Falketind Xplore | Atomic RC-10
- Favorite boots: Alfa Guard | boots that fit
Re: Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
Falketind Xplores should work well for you. I skied them down a black that had chunks of crusty snow frozen to the ground. They were nice even when skidding down the run after a turn.
If I have understood correctly, the FTX’s have been a platform for Xplore development at Åsnes.
On the flats the FTX’s did fine too, including 30-40 cm powder. Someone has disliked their tips for deeper snow, so maybe I just have always had mediorce deep snow BC skis. I ski 196 cm FTX’s for XC performance.
If I have understood correctly, the FTX’s have been a platform for Xplore development at Åsnes.
On the flats the FTX’s did fine too, including 30-40 cm powder. Someone has disliked their tips for deeper snow, so maybe I just have always had mediorce deep snow BC skis. I ski 196 cm FTX’s for XC performance.
- bbense
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:42 pm
- Location: Tahoe
- Ski style: All of them except hucking
- Favorite Skis: Voile V8, Blizzard Bonafide, Fischer Boundless
- Favorite boots: Pretty much anything made by Scarpa
- Occupation: Getting as many ski days in as my knees will allow
Re: Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
I'm skiing an older pair of Madhus Glittertinds with the Xplore boots/bindings. They do just fine on harder stuff.
No longer sold, but they are roughly camber and 1/2 skis with 68-55-62mm. I'd guess anything with steel edges in under 70mm with some sidecut would be fine.
I bet the modern version of the Glittertind would be just fine.
https://www.skatepro.com/en-us/744-37062.htm
It's the torsional stiffness of Xplore boots that makes the difference IMHO.
No longer sold, but they are roughly camber and 1/2 skis with 68-55-62mm. I'd guess anything with steel edges in under 70mm with some sidecut would be fine.
I bet the modern version of the Glittertind would be just fine.
https://www.skatepro.com/en-us/744-37062.htm
It's the torsional stiffness of Xplore boots that makes the difference IMHO.
Re: Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
I don't have a great suggestion, but in my experience the s-bound 98 is ok but not great on hard snow. It's sidecut allows it to turn easily but half way through the turn you start to skitter out. And that's with a boot that's much more substantial than the boot you are referencing.
The s-bound is a good all around ski for everything from fresh powder to consolidated powder to slightly firm snow. It doesn't provide enough for deep powder days (the kind we get in Colorado) and isn't great on the super firm. If flotation is not a concern for you, then it's not the right ski.
The s-bound is a good all around ski for everything from fresh powder to consolidated powder to slightly firm snow. It doesn't provide enough for deep powder days (the kind we get in Colorado) and isn't great on the super firm. If flotation is not a concern for you, then it's not the right ski.
- wabene
- Posts: 716
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:53 am
- Location: Duluth Minnesota
- Ski style: Stiff kneed and wide eyed.
- Favorite Skis: Åsnes Gamme, Fischer SB98, Mashus M50, M78, Pano M62
- Favorite boots: Crispi Svartsen 75mm, Scarpa T4
- Occupation: Carpenter
Re: Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
Not to pick nits here but the ski in your link is a newer version of the Eon. The new version of the Glittertind is this skibbense wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:19 pmI'm skiing an older pair of Madhus Glittertinds with the Xplore boots/bindings. They do just fine on harder stuff.
No longer sold, but they are roughly camber and 1/2 skis with 68-55-62mm. I'd guess anything with steel edges in under 70mm with some sidecut would be fine.
I bet the modern version of the Glittertind would be just fine.
https://www.skatepro.com/en-us/744-37062.htm
It's the torsional stiffness of Xplore boots that makes the difference IMHO.
https://madshus.com/en-us/p/panorama-T5 ... -skis-2024
- fisheater
- Posts: 2617
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- Location: Oakland County, MI
- Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
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- Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
- Occupation: Construction Manager
Re: Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
Hello @satanas I have never skied an Explore boot, however I have been skiing downhill oriented touring skis with leather boot on 75 mm well over ten years. It’s a type of skiing I have become to enjoy.
I do not recommend S-bound skis for firm surfaces. I skied an S-112 for a few years. The laminated air channel core has no torsional rigidity put on edge. You really can’t push it, and that snowboard on edge sound,on firm snow that it makes inspires no confidence. It’s more like a warning beeper saying push this anymore and this noodle is going to let go!
The newer Falketind Xplore is an improvement over the original Falketind which was torsional stiff enough, but too soft longitudinally. I also ski this ski at 196 cm. I find this ski has done a wonderful job as it both kicks and glides, and is quite good downhill. It is also quite supportive in deep snow. Although I have heard complaints from western skiers about deep snow performance. Being older and skiing 205 cm straight downhill skis before skis got wider perhaps gives me a different perspective? I’m not sure.
I have never skied and Ingstad, however I’ve been reading the reports for years. It isn’t that the Ingstad lacks the torsional rigidity to turn on firm surfaces. Rather the rockered camber profile of the Ingstad does not optimize kick and glide performance on firm surfaces. It is reported to offer excellent touring and turning in soft conditions.
The Nansen is an interesting ski. I have seen it skied, it arcs into a turn nicely into a turn. My take is that it is an XC ski that turns nicely. I’ve had some guys suggest at my 190 pounds that I may be heavy for this ski at maximum length of 205. While I am interested in this ski, I need more time skiing, not more skis!
Another ski that has gotten good reviews recently from people I trust is the Panorama 62 by Madshus. I think it is also a laminated air channel type core, similar to the S-bound, but people I respect like the ski.
I do not recommend S-bound skis for firm surfaces. I skied an S-112 for a few years. The laminated air channel core has no torsional rigidity put on edge. You really can’t push it, and that snowboard on edge sound,on firm snow that it makes inspires no confidence. It’s more like a warning beeper saying push this anymore and this noodle is going to let go!
The newer Falketind Xplore is an improvement over the original Falketind which was torsional stiff enough, but too soft longitudinally. I also ski this ski at 196 cm. I find this ski has done a wonderful job as it both kicks and glides, and is quite good downhill. It is also quite supportive in deep snow. Although I have heard complaints from western skiers about deep snow performance. Being older and skiing 205 cm straight downhill skis before skis got wider perhaps gives me a different perspective? I’m not sure.
I have never skied and Ingstad, however I’ve been reading the reports for years. It isn’t that the Ingstad lacks the torsional rigidity to turn on firm surfaces. Rather the rockered camber profile of the Ingstad does not optimize kick and glide performance on firm surfaces. It is reported to offer excellent touring and turning in soft conditions.
The Nansen is an interesting ski. I have seen it skied, it arcs into a turn nicely into a turn. My take is that it is an XC ski that turns nicely. I’ve had some guys suggest at my 190 pounds that I may be heavy for this ski at maximum length of 205. While I am interested in this ski, I need more time skiing, not more skis!
Another ski that has gotten good reviews recently from people I trust is the Panorama 62 by Madshus. I think it is also a laminated air channel type core, similar to the S-bound, but people I respect like the ski.
- wabene
- Posts: 716
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- Favorite Skis: Åsnes Gamme, Fischer SB98, Mashus M50, M78, Pano M62
- Favorite boots: Crispi Svartsen 75mm, Scarpa T4
- Occupation: Carpenter
Re: Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
I have both the SB98 and the Madshus M62 and on firm groomers the M62 does hold a better edge, but it is a soft ski so only a little better. Maybe because it is slightly narrower and doesn't have scales? If there is some fresh snow the 98 is more fun and easier to turn. The M62 that I have, fisheater is referring to and that bbense linked to was a version that was only made for a year or two a few years ago. It has a wax base and a kicker skin attachment. Apparently Skate Pro has some left maybe because they refuse to ever put anything on sale, lol. The new Panorama M62 has fishscales and no skin attachment. All very confusing.
Re: Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
Thanks for the responses so far. I guess I ought to provide a bit mote context....
I'm in Australia, and recently have been touring mostly on v1 Voile Vector BCs in 170cm with Marker Kingpin bindings and Dynafit TLT 5P boots. They've handled most things pretty well, but the boot liners are rapidly approaching their use by date, and the setup is overkill for covering distance. I also have Fischer Boundless in 169cm with Switchbacks, and have used both Excursions and T4s with these; they're turny but not stiff enough if it gets really firm, and don't float especially well in deep snow, not that we get much of that here. I haven't' got on too well with the clunky boots, and really hated T2Xs - too heavy and stiff, and way too difficult to flex fore-aft.
FWIW, I've also tried the Madshus Annum (78mm) waist skis and disliked them quite a bit compared with Voile Vector/V6 or Fisher SB98/112; they seemed like the proverbial planks to me. FWIW, I'm light and generally prefer shorter, not longer, for maneuverability - given adequate stiffness.
It's a long time since I've been on E99/TN66 but back in the 1970s 200cm E77s were the second skis I owned after some (shudder) 210cm Kongsberg wooden skis. However, I did ski on Swallow Telemark skis (195cm x 72/54/63 IIRC) for quite a while. These were very nice, if a bit soft.
One good thing about wider skis is that the bindings and boot soles don't catch but that might not be an issue with Xplore(?).
The FTX 62s look interesting but seem to be waxable/skins only and here in Oz patterns rule; I gave up on grip wax in 1984(!). I'm surprised they're not too wide to edge with non-plastic but that's promising.
I'm in Australia, and recently have been touring mostly on v1 Voile Vector BCs in 170cm with Marker Kingpin bindings and Dynafit TLT 5P boots. They've handled most things pretty well, but the boot liners are rapidly approaching their use by date, and the setup is overkill for covering distance. I also have Fischer Boundless in 169cm with Switchbacks, and have used both Excursions and T4s with these; they're turny but not stiff enough if it gets really firm, and don't float especially well in deep snow, not that we get much of that here. I haven't' got on too well with the clunky boots, and really hated T2Xs - too heavy and stiff, and way too difficult to flex fore-aft.
FWIW, I've also tried the Madshus Annum (78mm) waist skis and disliked them quite a bit compared with Voile Vector/V6 or Fisher SB98/112; they seemed like the proverbial planks to me. FWIW, I'm light and generally prefer shorter, not longer, for maneuverability - given adequate stiffness.
It's a long time since I've been on E99/TN66 but back in the 1970s 200cm E77s were the second skis I owned after some (shudder) 210cm Kongsberg wooden skis. However, I did ski on Swallow Telemark skis (195cm x 72/54/63 IIRC) for quite a while. These were very nice, if a bit soft.
One good thing about wider skis is that the bindings and boot soles don't catch but that might not be an issue with Xplore(?).
The FTX 62s look interesting but seem to be waxable/skins only and here in Oz patterns rule; I gave up on grip wax in 1984(!). I'm surprised they're not too wide to edge with non-plastic but that's promising.
- lilcliffy
- Posts: 4156
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
- Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
- Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
- Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
- Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
- Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger
Re: Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
Mornin!
@satanas Are you looking for a downhill-oriented touring ski? (ie not a distance-oriented ski like the E99/Glittertind that have been mentioned)
@satanas Are you looking for a downhill-oriented touring ski? (ie not a distance-oriented ski like the E99/Glittertind that have been mentioned)
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.
Re: Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?
Yes, definitely needs to be at least a bit turny, as opposed to "can be coerced into turning."