Can you actually climb with kick wax?

[BEVL]

Trying to get some clear answers on this. Is it at all possible to climb steeply on xc skis and wax? I am familiar with lilcliffy's and Pinnah's method of waxing for touring (Polar on whole ski and kick wax of the day in pocket or extended if needed) and yet I still start sliding backwards on essentially any incline. In fairness I am a novice to xc skis so maybe my technique is at fault, but if feels nearly impossible to climb with only wax. Realistically how steep should I expect to be able to climb with wax, and how should I go about getting the best climbing ability?

[wooley12]

Upish? Maybe. Steep? No. Skins or herringbone.

[Theme]

You can climb steeper than other traction bases, but not as steep as with full skins. Performance is closest to kicker skins, although in ideal conditions wax beats them too.

Could be about your ski or waxing too, or what the snow is like.

[ezp901]

If you’re a novice to xc skis your uphill technique probably could be improved. You probably are not fully transferring your weight from ski to ski. Go to some xc ski trails and watch how people ascend. Often you’ll see a little hop step that can help, pretty easy to copy if you see it. I find sometimes my weight gets too far forward uphill and lengthening (edit: not really lengthen, that’s sort of the opposite, center my stride? Make sure my skis are under me) my stride as well as not leaning as far forward can help.

But to be more concrete, here are some numbers that I’m guessing about by looking at trails. Under 10%? Should be fine. Around 10% grade? Doable, depending on snow. Feels achievable but not forgiving about technique at all. This is where if I’m already tired at all I’ll often fall apart and herringbone. Above 10%? I think you have to have great technique and be in great shape to stride up this, but that applies to a lot of people. Just not me. All assuming cooperative snow.

[Inspiredcapers]

I’m gonna go with no. Unless its -25ish C and you’ve waxed your entire ski using the Polar trick. Then you can climb steepish. Don’t expect much for glide though.

[wabene]

I would say when it is right, the combination of grip and glide with wax is the best. It is a complicated art and you will achieve varying degrees of success. Much trial and error, at least for me. Consistent cold temps are the easiest situation to achieve great results. We have had a cold snap with highs around 0f or just above. With polar glide hot waxed on the tips and tails and Swix polar or green kick wax in the pocket, my skis have been climbing like a Fischer patterned base ski while being quite a bit faster. Skiing on waxed skis can really be the best experience with amazing glide, but there will also be failure. Many times I don't have quite the kick, but make do while enjoying great glide. Other times I've got kick but the skis drag some, this I find less enjoyable. There are also differences between fresh and tracked snow. Recently I would have less kick but great glide on snow I had tracked, but the opposite in fresh snow as I broke trail, having great grip but dragging more. I would say in contrast, fishscaled skis are more predictable with reliable kick and in warmer snow good glide but not as good as wax can be.
In cold temps I will bring 2 different width waxed base skis and choose based based on how packed or fresh the trail is. In warmer temps I might bring a waxed and a fishscaled ski and choose based on how well my kick wax attempt grips. No grip and don't feel like messing around? Back to the truck for the fishscales.

[timpete]

This is an ill-posed question as it's highly dependent on gear and snowbase conditions, but here goes:

NORDIC TRACK / RACE STYLE SKIING:

You have to have excellent nordic xc technique to diagonal stride up > 10 deg incline (11% grade), and also fitness to keep it up for more than a hundred meters. This statement is based on a "properly kick waxed" racing nordic ski. If you watch world cup xc skiiers some of the best can stride up to probably 12 deg grade but even at the world cup level most will switch to herringbone run at those pitches. Most casual citizen skiiers you see out at your local nordic center will start slipping at probably 6 deg or so; the correct racing diagonal stride takes years of fitness and training to actually master. IMHO about 10% of the folks who say "I can xc classic ski" can actually properly diagnonal stride.

Some good resources as related to track xc skiing here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/org/scien ... 9X17000044

MOUNTAIN TOURING SKIING

Typically in these conditions people will really extend their kickzone because they don't really care about glide, or are fine being slowed down on the way down. When most people say "striding" in this context it's usually more of a walk than actually having a glide phase. Maybe you can go up to 8-11 deg or so if you really glob on wax, but that would be draggy as hell on the way down. Above that you'll want to stop and put on the full length skins. Pitches for skinning up passes and such are routinely 10-20 deg or so so I think kickwaxing to go up this, unless you want to turn your ski into a snowshoe, is hopeless.

[wabene]

I think there is a vast difference in the climbing ability of waxed Nordic track skis and less cambered and likely wider backcountry skis. As mentioned above technique is very important with double cambered skis. You can get away with sloppier technique on less cambered skis. You can also stomp up some quite steep slopes on a good wax job.

[JohnSKepler]

It's very dependent on conditions. If it is cold and the snow is fresh kick-wax traction can be very good and I can climb steeper stuff than with scales or 'half-skins'. As it warms, as the snow ages, kick wax becomes less effective (for me). As it warms I'm more likely to take scaled skis which perform better across a wider range of warm conditions and are less hassle than klister or constantly stopping to alter wax. But, as others have said, if you want to climb steep hills you need to put on full-length skins. Snow is, after all, ice.

[corlay]

one thing to add: I've found that if you are really "working" to ascend a "climb",
you can successfully achieve a steeper slope, than if just leisurely making your way up.
Maintaining a base-level of positive inertia, really goes a long way...