All purpose backcountry/bushwack ski

[ddg]

Thanks guys. Yes, I'm going to check out Radical when I'm up in Freddy in the next weeks. The Alaskas are tempting even to try with the BC 125s. The T4s are simply too stiff for my liking for anything but up/down, not to mention fit problems (aka burnt shins). However, I'm just not sure about buying a boot before trying it on now. My foot measures 278 long, 103 wide, 305 instep. Size 10 sounds good on paper. I know you have also mentioned Crispi Svartisens but they seem a bit difficult to come by, and I am guessing $$$. I see that http://www.summitconesports.com/ is the distributor for them.

[MikeK]

You can actually get the Svartisen for about $280 USD shipped to NA. You'll have to wait until next year though as the sources I know of for that price are out.

Fey Bros can get them for you, but they will charge more.

I always say this but if you can go to a shop and try on another Alpina boot I can give you an idea of what size Svaritsen you may need or if the Alaska will work for you. A 1550 or 1575 will be the closest match, I know I wear the same size as I do my Alaska.

As far as the Alaska with the big Rossi, it might feel a bit floppy except in powder. The Svartisen will feel better for sure.

[lilcliffy]

Just a note.

I mentioned the Alpina BC1600 in a recent post. One of our close friends just bought a pair- beautiful construction- but they are significantly wider/larger volume than the Alaska in an equivalent size. She fit perfectly into my wife's Alaska size 41. The BC1600 is too wide and too much volume for her. Go figure- I would have assumed that they would have the identical last!?

[MikeK]

Oh - good to know!

1550/1575 are the closest that I know to the Alaska, except maybe the Explorer 75 (looks like the same boot, just different upper). Svartisen fit is different, sounds more like the BC 1600 - way more volume than Alaska/1550/1575!

[ddg]

The Svartisen will feel better for sure.

In your opinion:

• How do they compare to the Excursions for comfort, K&G, and downhill control?
• How do the Excursions compare to the T4s? I personally find the T4s uncomfortable. Just too block like. I guess they just don't work for my foot.

Thanks.

[MikeK]

OK Derrick, bear with me, I'll do my best here.

My wife is the only one I know to ski the T4, Excursion, Svartisen and Alaska. I know you didn't specifically ask about it, but I want to put it in there for your future reference.

I've handled all these boots, and I myself, ski with an Alaska and Svartisen, so I can help connect my experience to hers. I also have an older pair of Asolo Snowpines that I don't use much.

If I had to draw a graphic of relative stiffness it would go this way, stiffer being to the right:

Alaska....Svartisen..Snowpine.........................Excursion.......T4...T2, etc

So that said, you kind of see the relative scale.

That scale would also be pretty much directionally the same for turning capability and inverse for kick and glide efficiency.

What you don't get off that is the details of what make the Alaska and the Svartisen a better boot than the Snowpine and what makes the Excursion a better boot than the T4.

Now purely for turning capability we'd go right off my diagram. Serious mountain skies wouldn't consider the boots on the left because they are too soft, and not powerful enough. The Excursion kind of bridges that gap where it's still a pretty damn good touring boot, but it's also powerful... way more powerful than the leathers. Just keep that in mind.

Back to details. The Svartisen is not a stiff boot in ski boot terms. It's pretty stiff in hiking boot terms, but the sole flexes pretty well. It's benefit comes from the cuff, which gives you some added ankle power to roll the ski without hindering the kick and glide too much.

The Alaska is very similar, at least in the 75mm version that I have used. The Alaska is more like a winter hiking boot though in terms of support. IMO I find it more comfortable than the Svartisen, but not a ton more. It's just softer and more conforming to the foot. My wife finds the Svartisen more comfortable (and she has Alaskas too) - she's the only one I know of that has ever had some discomfort with this boot. I think she strains herself because it's not stiff enough to support where her foot is weak... that's at least my theory.

Her opinion on which is more comfortable in regards to the Svartisen vs. the Excursion I think is a tossup. She says both are comfortable but obviously the Svartisen is better for kick and glide. She doesn't think the Svartisen is stiff enough for her liking i.e. on a hill, she feels more compromised with the Svartisen and confident with the Excursion. She's probably more cautious than most in those regards though.

In regards to the T4 vs Excursion, some of the blockiness will be gone, but it still be a far cry from a leather boot. My wife strides pretty well in hers, but she's also not interested in going fast. It's certainly not what I would call a fast stride. Having the Svartisen myself I know I can get a pretty good stride with them. They hinder me more than an Alaska and 75mm is bit more impeding on the extension than the NNN is, but it's not a huge deal in most cases. One is certainly faster, but not so much to be unenjoyable to most people.

I also threw in my Snowpines. Those boots make me appreciate modern boots. They are stiffer, both in sole and around the ankle but they lack support. First off the ankle is not high enough, secondly it's high enough and stiff enough it digs into your achilles tendon upon stride, third it doesn't conform to the foot the same, forth they aren't as warm. Either the Alaska or the Svartisen kills these boots in performance and comfort. I'm not saying all Norwegian welted boots are that way, but that model is surely not as good at controlling a ski or striding as either of my new boots are.

As far as you buying or trying things. Do as much as you can and you might have to take another chance. I'm not trying to pawn off my old gear on you, I like that gear very much, it just happens I found better gear to suit my needs. You'll most likely have to do a little shuffling to get that right too. I mentioned to lilcliffy in another post that if I had to do it all over again, I'd buy everything in different order and not all the same stuff. I honestly haven't been disappointed with anything I bought, I just understand how I like to use these skis better.

We're all trying to decipher how you will use your skis. Most likely you'll end up with a couple pairs and maybe a couple pairs of boots. No issue there. It's just the matter of finding the ones that will suit your needs the best, and only you know that, and possibly haven't figured it out yet... so don't get discouraged, you'll figure it out!

Good luck!

[Freshpow]

[*]How do the Excursions compare to the T4s? I personally find the T4s uncomfortable. Just too block like. I guess they just don't work for my foot.[/list]
Thanks.

I've only read the first and last few posts of this massive thread, but maybe I can add another perspective here...

I have a couple of pairs of older leather boots, Scott Excursions, Scarpa T3s (quite similar to T4 I think, but with an Intuition thermoformable liner), and very old T2s. My favourite skis for xcd and just off-trail xc are Voile Vector BCs. I recently bought the Excursions (from mammothgear.com, great price if they have your size) and T3s (used, from ebay) because the leather/Vector combination only really works well in soft snow and the T2s are kind of cumbersome for xc touring.

From the exterior dimensions, the T3s and Excursions are very similar. The Excursions are maybe 1-2mm wider in the forefoot, from the outside. However, they feel very different on the feet. The Excursion liners are very cushy, almost squishy, and while the T3 thermo liners are comparatively stiff. The Excursions have lots of forefoot width for my medium-wide foot, while the T3s are tight all around (note that this isn't really a fair comparison as I haven't molded the T3 thermo liners yet). The way they feel flexing is also quite different. The Excursions have a very soft and smooth forward flex -- the closest to leather of any plastic boot I've tried, while still offering way more lateral support than my leathers. The T3s feel much stiffer in forward flex.

I've only done one short day with Excursions + Vectors, but so far it seems like a winner for me. My one concern is that the squishy Excursion liner may pack out leaving me with a too loose fit. I'm thinking of using the T3 thermo liners in the Excursion shells to combat this.

Hope that helps...

[ddg]

alaska....Svartisen..Snowpine.........................Excursion.......T4...T2, etc

This helps a lot. Thanks! Those Svartisen boots look very nice. The leather combined with the 2 straps could be the perfect balance I'm looking for. At this point, I've narrowed it down to Excursion and Svartisen for the BC125s.

We're all trying to decipher how you will use your skis. Most likely you'll end up with a couple pairs and maybe a couple pairs of boots.

Yes, this is what I'm thinking, although not my original plan. First step is to get the BC125s working for me. Family with 4 kids limits the extra cash, although I'd much rather have the kids than the cash.

I recently bought the Excursions (from mammothgear.com, great price if they have your size)

Good to know. Mammothgear definitely has some nice deals. I see they have some 27.5 demo Excursions for $160. Not sure how demo'd they are but that size might work for me. Thanks for the info!

[MikeK]

I get cost thing... that's why I'm kinda trying to steer you towards used gear if you can find something that will work.

I say Excursion would be the better bet for the BC125 - just my humble opinion. A Svartisen will be a great boot for a little less ski. Had you given up the BC125 for more of mid-fat XCD ski, I'd say go through the pain of getting a Svartisen.

The Excursion is much easier to get here in NA. Unless you plan on changing skis, I'd head in that direction. Look for used shells and buy the Intuition liner... you'll have an awesome boot setup! Then save your hard earned bananas for a skinnier/leather setup.

[Rodbelan]

T3 and T4 are different... The T3 is stiffer in forward flex than T4. I tried both... The T3 is really similar to the old T2, with 2 buckles instead of 3... For me, the T4 is a better fit. The «block» feeling will go away after a while... You will get the same feeling from some of the leather boots out there...