Decisions, decisions...

[MikeK]

Oh woe is me...

http://www.omcgear.com/fischer-e109-cro ... Aqxj8P8HAQ

http://www.omcgear.com/fischer-s-bound- ... Aod78P8HAQ

Which direction would you go?

NNN touring ski is the primary goal. To fill the same shoes as the Eon.

My current quiver direction is:

Fischer E89 w/ NNN - local xc
Fischer S98 w/ 3 pin - xcD and deep XCd touring
New Ski w/ NNN? Main XCd tourer

[lilcliffy]

In my experience the S-78 and the E-109 are very different skis.

The S-78 being a downhill-focused hybrid telemark-xcountry ski.

The E-109 being a kick and glide-focused off-trail xcountry ski.

Although the Eon is also a hybrid telemark-xcountry ski- in my mind the Eon's performance lies in between the S-78 and the E-109. However- I have not tested the current S-78. IME, the older S-78 did not tour as efficiently as the Eon. This is due to a number of design differences, including the fact that the Eon is available in a longer length than the S-78. Regardless of any new designs tweaks in the current S-78- the Eon is still available in lengths up to 205cm (and of course waxable base).

I would not want the E-109 if I was doing a lot of serious downhill runs in my touring. This may NOT be true in a very short length...but I would want the length to get the intended performance out of the E-109.

The E-109 blows both the S-78 and the Eon away, as a xcountry ski.

[MikeK]

Thanks for the feedback lilcliffy!

My intended length for either is 200cm (199 for the S Bound ).

Based on my observations with the S 98, I don't know that I'd be giving up a ton using a S 78 in a 199. It probably has a bit less camber, but I do plan to ski it mainly in the mountains.

It's a really tough call - I'd love to just try both and see what works best for me, but I don't have the money or time for that. Seen as how the Eon doesn't have much camber either (at least the newest ones I have), I'm guessing the S 78 would be more similar performance-wise in the same length.

I could wait out for another set of Eons as I had thought of earlier, but honestly I was thinking about it and I like all my Fischer skis better than their Madshus competitors.

[lilcliffy]

Well it appears to me that your best choice is the S-78.

The E-109 is truly a xcountry ski- stiff, double-cambered (I still don't get the profile of the current E-109). (I know, I know...somebody will tell me how back in the old days they telemarked on stiff, double-cambered skis down K2) But I personally find any serious downhill skiing on true xcountry skis to not only be a constant fight- I also find it dangerous and a bit scary!

The Scandinavians and indigenous peoples of northern Eurasia have been making single cambered Nordic skis for the mountains (i.e. the "fjellski") for a very, very, long time. I am willing to follow their lead.

If you are going to be skiing in the mountains- my advice is to go with the S-78.

I was planning on buying a waxable E-109 (205cm) last winter when they went on sale- they sold out. I was planning on using it as intended- off-trail xcountry cruising on gentle terrain. I ended up buying a pair of Asnes double-cambered combat skis (from Coleman's). I am very excited about trying them this winter.

If it was time to replace my Eons- I might consider the S-78 as replacement...but I wish they made it a bit longer and with a waxable base. I was hoping to buy a 205cm waxable Eon- but they sold out as well!

Sounds to me like you want a cruising/touring ski for the mountains- sounds like the Eon or S-78 (or perhaps S-88) are the best options.

(As an aside- it boggles the mind that Fischer makes so many skis that split hairs in terms of width and profile! What is the true difference in performance between a S-78 and a S-88? S-88 and S-98? The S-78 is faster than all of them...so if you need more flotation why would you stop at the S-88 and not go for the S-98? )

[MikeK]

Yup, you nailed it exactly - cruising ski for what I would call intermediate to difficult xc terrain. Ungroomed of course.

Yeah Fischers selection makes it fairly difficult, but I'll say Madshus does the same with the Eon and the Epoch... not a ton of different there from what I can see in our skis. It's still more of a spread than the S78/88/98, but still blurry.

Based on my experiences with the Glittertind in this type of terrain I was really hesitant about a double camber ski, but I really wasn't sure how much different it (E109) might be than the S78.

[lilcliffy]

Yeah- the E-109 is very different from the S-78- very different from the S-Bounds in general. Fischer has clearly made a move to separate the S-Bounds from the "Backcountry" series. The E-109 flex pattern is that of a xcountry ski- the profile is what's weird. Still an awesome ski- I want a pair...at some point.

I think that the S-78 is a better choice than the S-88...if you want more flotation you might as well go for the S-98 or an Epoch. The S-88 seems a bit redundant.

Not sure if agree about the Eon versus the Epoch. IME the Eon is quite different from the Epoch. The Eon is much more of a xcountry ski than the Epoch. The Epoch, to me, is much more like a slimmer version of the Annum/Guide, than it is a wider version of an Eon. The Eon is clearly designed to be a backcountry-xcountry touring ski- with some moderate downhill performance. The Epoch/Annum is a true hybrid xcountry-telemark ski (similar to the intent of the S-Bounds).

I have never skied the current S-78. Is it similar to the Eon? Does it have a xcountry track groove? Regardless of the soft-flex; the Eon tracks like a xcountry ski.

I think that it is good you have the wider S-98. Although the Eon and the S-78 are reasonable wide- IME they are not powder skis. Have you ever tried the S-112 or Annum in comparison with the S-98 or Epoch?

Do you find you get enough flotation with the S-98? I find I don't. My personal experience suggests that skier weight plays a huge factor in choosing between the Annum (or S-112) and the Epoch (or S-98). My 13 year-old son weighs less than me and gets similar performance out of the Epoch, as I do out of the Annum. My 11 year-old daughter is so light she gets as much flotation out of her Eons as I do on the Annum!

I digress- touring in the mountainous terrain- go for the S-Bound, over the E-series.

[MikeK]

I don't think I've had the privilege of using any of my skis in really deep, soft, fluffy powder. I'm not sure that snow exists where I am, and in the Adirondacks I'm not sure it sticks around for very long.

We certainly do have powder, but I think the water content is high enough I've not had any great issues with flotation. I was heavy too last year. I was up to my heaviest I've ever been (too much beer) despite lots of skiing, I'm down to 200 lb now, but still that's heavy for a lot of these skis. Still, I don't find that I sink too much in our conditions, or at least the ones I've skied so far.

You know the big difference between the Eon and the Epoch I see is the track groove and sidecut. In unconsolidated snow, or something that hasn't been packed, like a snowmobile track, I don't notice much of difference in tracking - I can kick both really well. Eon glides better obviously and the Epoch climbs better only because of more area underfoot.

I don't like the Annum though (sorry, I know you do) - it's just too wide and not cambered enough for my liking. Again I think it's our snow. If I had deep fluffy really low water content powder to ski in, I'd probably really like it.

Again I've run across some people who really love it as a BC touring ski AND a BC dh ski. The main difference is what they were using for boots and bindings. The tourer was using Alaskas and pins and the dh skier was using T2s with switchbacks. A vast difference but really bringing out the xc or dh qualities of the ski.

I think the Eon is a really good dh ski, but to put switchbacks on it and run it with big plastic boots would be overkill IMO.

For me - the main goal of this ski is glide, hence the length. I still need control and good grip for steep hills.

I wound up buying the S 78 yesterday. The Eon will be switched over to pins for my wife to ski with.

[lilcliffy]

Yeah- snow conditions are another fundamental factor.

I agree with you- the Annum/Guide is brutal on dense, hard, or consolidated snow (although I do not find the Epoch/10th Mtn any better). I only use the Annum in deep, soft snow. I would actually probably prefer the Epoch (better glide), but I find I am too heavy for it- not enough flotation.

Except in rare winters like the last- the Annum/Guide is not my everyday ski- only for the pow.

COOL- looking forward to your reporting on the S-78 versus the Eon!

[Teleman]

Unfortunately the 109's I got from a ski swap sale were to short....(178)....Anywhere from a 190 to a 200 would have been far better....In consolidated snow that Mike describes in the Adirondacks....they work to beat hell....in deep wispy powder they can't float unless longer....They are a rock solid, slightly bigger ski than the e99 and slice the BC easily and turn on the down well....I'm a finesse skier so power is not a factor...Skinnies like these types need to be headed down most of the time and the ski initiates a lot slower than say a Fischer Rebound....But being skinnies you can control them by taking what Nature gives...natural dips...contours....riding gullies side to side always heading them down....Will try to get some pictures of Telekid skiing them.....never has before....he loves to blast e99's when the powder is consolidated...(read fast powder)....With deep fluffy powder all these types need more length...Last year was an example....more than 12 consecutive weeks of fluffy powder....deep....chest deep....face blasting...once in a lifetime powder.....I mean we can get 4-6 weeks of no thaws but 12 weeks? Unreal....Telekid and Teleking were using Fischer Boundless...(96 tip ?)....They did the job at 179 length but 189 would have been better....With that depth you can control speed by dip the tip....Will be using the 109 lots this year if we have an average snow year....TM

[lilcliffy]

Hey Teleman,

Do you know what model-year your E-109s are? Just wondering if they are as cambered and stiff as the current model.