Maybe this should be off topic, because it relates little to skiing. Also I don't have any great plan for this, but I'd like to discuss it, it's an interesting topic. And it doesn't have to be for skiing - it's more of how to maximize what you love to do and still be a somewhat productive member of society.
Why am I curious about this? I go through what other people go through regularly who work 40-50hrs + a week... stress, anxiety, dread, guilt, etc... I'll get into that later.
I'm a pretty even keeled guy most of the time. I'm pretty sure I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing for work. I don't always love it, but I don't think anything goes without a few ups and downs. I can't really talk about details of my job with others, because a lot of times it's confidential, but, there is no link to my persona here and my employer, and they are just doing what they need to to survive in the industry, so I feel I can comment on it safely. I don't much care for the auto industry... or the power industry. Both make me a bit sick to be quite honest, and I think that sits in the back of my head a lot of the time. So anyway it seems about every 3-6 months I have something comes up that really gets me pissed off to no end. It could be something small, or something big, but I really think it's just a culmination of a bunch of big and little shit that finally gets to me: the straw that breaks the camel's back.
So when all this happens I usually re-evaluate everything. Am I doing what I like. Is my life going where I want it to be. Can I live with my decisions... etc... I usually come to same conclusions that I'm not doing the right things or neither are my employers. I mean the big picture. I don't mean the right thing for the investors. I didn't always plan to work like this, I had thought at one time I would get my PhD and work in academia. So sometimes I feel like I sold out by taking a job before I punished myself getting a PhD in the sciences. Anyway, I'm not sure it would have been any different.
So back to the original question: how do you live doing what you love and live with yourself?
Detach from society?
Start over?
Run for office?
Accept things the way they are?
Just say fuck it?
These are very difficult things to understand. My dollar is my vote - and I can't always vote the way I want.
I suck at saving money. It's my worst attribute. I have little emotional attachment to money so it's easy for me to spend. Sometimes realizing your weaknesses are your strongest trait...
My thought has been this in recent years... I'm going to gradually detach from what I don't like about society. Stop contributing to it. I do this already with a lot things. I don't watch pro or college sports or buy the paraphernalia. I minimize buying industrial meat, eggs and dairy. I try to waste as little as possible... etc...
My next big step is buying some relatively off-the-grid land. Then building a self-sustaining house i.e. human, wood and solar powered. Hopefully by that time I'll have squandered a bit of money in traditional investments coupled with my school teacher wife's awesome retirement benefits that I can get out of this god forsaken rat race.
Then goes the car and the debt... bye bye...
I don't know? It's a pretty selfish plan, but I can't see it any other way. I'm not a great leader or entrepreneur. I'm not dedicated enough to homestead.
So what do you want to do? What is your real 10 year 'goal'? They ask me that at work all the time, but I don't think I've ever told them the truth.
Ski Bum 101?
Re: Ski Bum 101?
As a long time poster to climbing boards, I can tell you that being a "bum" of whatever sort is never a taboo subject, never off topic. Many of the first tier heroes of climbing are flat out bums, no other word for it. Making this observation has lead to at least a couple of my "bannings". What the hell do you call someone who has literally spent the majority of his adult life begging, digging cans out of trash, hiding from the police of whatever sort, breaking every rule and law, living in parks and parking lots while stealing passes, supplies and scamming the tourons?
Of course, my first and favorite example is Chongo, the fucking PRINCE of Bums, who is a "climber" and an expert in all things Slacker... but I feel CERTAIN that there are many such people touring the outside edges of skiing too. Its just that they have had a different environment that encourages them to keep lower profiles than Chongo ever did.
Hard to imagine a ski bum ever getting as good at it as Chongo was, or as famous. I mean, how would a ski bum set up a fucking kiosk on a ski route and hit the other skiers that pass by up for cookies, beer and drugs in exchange for very unreputable "advice" on how to ski the rest of the slope?
I knew ski bums when I worked at Teton village at "The Hostel". They were usually the guy sleeping on the floor of a four bed room when I'd come in to clean the room. Same guys, (always a guy), different room every couple days... They were the guys who were lurking the 'caf making soup out of ketchup and crackers off he salad bar, swiping plates off of empty tables after the actual customers left and eating the leftovers before they got to the dishwashers. They would take tips off of tables, pick up new skiis or poles as they walked to the lifts, and would walk the first lift to the top so they never would ski the front slopes where the lift operators would check passes.
I was a climbing bum for a few years, until I grew up. As such, I couldn't STAND the competition the other bums created, I'd throw them out of my camp as fast as I could, they would eat up all my peanut butter, then ask the tourists I had been grooming for all their leftover food as they would be leaving the campsites... I hated bums. Them Bums.
I got where I really still don't have much time for them, get a job...
Some guys just consider anybody who spends a lot of time playing sport instead of something more substantive a bum, but I think there is a difference between a true bum and a solid affectionado of sport. I was that kind; ...with a few deviations.
My personal final answer was to find a wife who was solid, hardworking and foolish enough to support me and my damn idiot impulses to kill myself, while herself working her ass off everyday. She does NOT do any of my sports, so no competition there. No arguing over destinations, who belays or anything else important to a slacker. She doesn't even compete over the booze and beer. She doesn't drink. A fucking perfect woman.
I am not a bum now, I am a pampered husband who is well supported in the manner to which I wished to become accustomed. I am a FUCKING LUCKY Man.
I think we would be friendly Mike, I can see your angst... it appears to be a lot like my own...
Best Ski bum trip ever? 21 days on a Colorado Outward Bound Ski trip. Full "scholarship", meaning they gave me a sleeping bag and pack, filled it with food and gave me a actual human GUIDE to fix it so I didn't have to actually think or worry about ANYTHING. Best ski bum action evah! (Where ARE we Bro? Never mind, I don't care... you figure it out.)
And, I FINALLY had a reason for learning to read and print, it was for filling out their application! What willing fools they were, and most of the "instructors" were just natural Nature-bums who had found a pay-gig.
...their example Ruined me for life... the fuckers... I still remember their names almost fifty years later.
Da Bumms.
Of course, my first and favorite example is Chongo, the fucking PRINCE of Bums, who is a "climber" and an expert in all things Slacker... but I feel CERTAIN that there are many such people touring the outside edges of skiing too. Its just that they have had a different environment that encourages them to keep lower profiles than Chongo ever did.
Hard to imagine a ski bum ever getting as good at it as Chongo was, or as famous. I mean, how would a ski bum set up a fucking kiosk on a ski route and hit the other skiers that pass by up for cookies, beer and drugs in exchange for very unreputable "advice" on how to ski the rest of the slope?
I knew ski bums when I worked at Teton village at "The Hostel". They were usually the guy sleeping on the floor of a four bed room when I'd come in to clean the room. Same guys, (always a guy), different room every couple days... They were the guys who were lurking the 'caf making soup out of ketchup and crackers off he salad bar, swiping plates off of empty tables after the actual customers left and eating the leftovers before they got to the dishwashers. They would take tips off of tables, pick up new skiis or poles as they walked to the lifts, and would walk the first lift to the top so they never would ski the front slopes where the lift operators would check passes.
I was a climbing bum for a few years, until I grew up. As such, I couldn't STAND the competition the other bums created, I'd throw them out of my camp as fast as I could, they would eat up all my peanut butter, then ask the tourists I had been grooming for all their leftover food as they would be leaving the campsites... I hated bums. Them Bums.
I got where I really still don't have much time for them, get a job...
Some guys just consider anybody who spends a lot of time playing sport instead of something more substantive a bum, but I think there is a difference between a true bum and a solid affectionado of sport. I was that kind; ...with a few deviations.
My personal final answer was to find a wife who was solid, hardworking and foolish enough to support me and my damn idiot impulses to kill myself, while herself working her ass off everyday. She does NOT do any of my sports, so no competition there. No arguing over destinations, who belays or anything else important to a slacker. She doesn't even compete over the booze and beer. She doesn't drink. A fucking perfect woman.
I am not a bum now, I am a pampered husband who is well supported in the manner to which I wished to become accustomed. I am a FUCKING LUCKY Man.
I think we would be friendly Mike, I can see your angst... it appears to be a lot like my own...
Best Ski bum trip ever? 21 days on a Colorado Outward Bound Ski trip. Full "scholarship", meaning they gave me a sleeping bag and pack, filled it with food and gave me a actual human GUIDE to fix it so I didn't have to actually think or worry about ANYTHING. Best ski bum action evah! (Where ARE we Bro? Never mind, I don't care... you figure it out.)
And, I FINALLY had a reason for learning to read and print, it was for filling out their application! What willing fools they were, and most of the "instructors" were just natural Nature-bums who had found a pay-gig.
...their example Ruined me for life... the fuckers... I still remember their names almost fifty years later.
Da Bumms.
Last edited by Rokjox on Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Ski Bum 101?
Here's some marginally stupid advice (since you asked 
): Mine's not too different from your situation, except I'm most-definitely NOT even keeled and also started dealing with this type of thing a few years ago (I'm slightly more elderly than you): Worked 60-80 hour weeks busting my ass for someone else's goals all the while fighting traffic and breathing in shitty quality air and ruining my health with stress. Was miserable and wondered why. A smart person pointed out to me that you don't necessarily need to make your income doing the things you love/are good at because it's a great way to start to hate it. Your talents and passions should be used for more important things than working for someone else.
Important: Quality of life, satisfaction, learning, respect, and hopefully setting a good(ish) example. It helps to have a high-quality partner.
Important: Use income as tool to gain what you want. It's a means to enable your ideal lifestyle. Sometimes you've just got to endure the pain because it's not always pretty, plus, it puts hair on your chest.
Important: Simplicity. Spend your dough on high-quality, very appropriate tools and only when you need them. If that's not feasible, make your own shit. Don't compromise unless you must. Stick to your principles.
Why does one need to be a productive member of society? Might be more important to just insist on not being a drag on society. You don't owe 'society' anything (or do you?) and selfishness is sometimes (never always) needed. Happy and somewhat selfish is better IMO than unselfish and bitter.
Goals: Learn, improve, and teach. If you told your employers that your goal was "To gain enough financial momentum so I can skate away from this or any other employment ASAP" they might not like it.
Get property deep in the woods. It's the best way I've found to fix the stress, but then again, I'm a hermit in sheep's clothing.
): Mine's not too different from your situation, except I'm most-definitely NOT even keeled and also started dealing with this type of thing a few years ago (I'm slightly more elderly than you): Worked 60-80 hour weeks busting my ass for someone else's goals all the while fighting traffic and breathing in shitty quality air and ruining my health with stress. Was miserable and wondered why. A smart person pointed out to me that you don't necessarily need to make your income doing the things you love/are good at because it's a great way to start to hate it. Your talents and passions should be used for more important things than working for someone else.Important: Quality of life, satisfaction, learning, respect, and hopefully setting a good(ish) example. It helps to have a high-quality partner.
Important: Use income as tool to gain what you want. It's a means to enable your ideal lifestyle. Sometimes you've just got to endure the pain because it's not always pretty, plus, it puts hair on your chest.
Important: Simplicity. Spend your dough on high-quality, very appropriate tools and only when you need them. If that's not feasible, make your own shit. Don't compromise unless you must. Stick to your principles.
Why does one need to be a productive member of society? Might be more important to just insist on not being a drag on society. You don't owe 'society' anything (or do you?) and selfishness is sometimes (never always) needed. Happy and somewhat selfish is better IMO than unselfish and bitter.
Goals: Learn, improve, and teach. If you told your employers that your goal was "To gain enough financial momentum so I can skate away from this or any other employment ASAP" they might not like it.
Get property deep in the woods. It's the best way I've found to fix the stress, but then again, I'm a hermit in sheep's clothing.
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MikeK
Re: Ski Bum 101?
Yeah you both nailed it. I don't want to be a fuckin' cretin, but I also don't want to contribute anymore to what I hate about the world.
Everytime I have a 'revelation of frustration' with my 'superiors', I think, what can I do to get away from this?
I wish we were solving the problems (and yes Johnny, these really are just stupid man-made problems) but we're too greedy and stupid actually go in the right direction. We're making small, incremental and somewhat worthless changes that just delay the inevitable. It's like having lung cancer and thinking if we smoke two less cigarettes a day we will somehow get better... how does that make any sense?
About 8 years ago when I started working where I am I was a lot more naive. Age and experience have bitterer me.
On the flip side I also have to think about others... I mean some people have it A LOT worse than me. I have more shit than I could ever ask for. And I'm usually pretty happy if I don't think about the shit in society that urks me. Ignorance is bliss? But in recent years I've learned that I feel better away from it, and it's my new 'goal'. I hate that word. I hate goals. But I don't know how else to describe it.
At first it's just gonna be a ski cabin, but eventually it's gonna be home. I've been planning and looking before I ever joined this forum. My wife is on board. I just need to not get fired for a little longer... some days it's tough...
Everytime I have a 'revelation of frustration' with my 'superiors', I think, what can I do to get away from this?
I wish we were solving the problems (and yes Johnny, these really are just stupid man-made problems) but we're too greedy and stupid actually go in the right direction. We're making small, incremental and somewhat worthless changes that just delay the inevitable. It's like having lung cancer and thinking if we smoke two less cigarettes a day we will somehow get better... how does that make any sense?
About 8 years ago when I started working where I am I was a lot more naive. Age and experience have bitterer me.
On the flip side I also have to think about others... I mean some people have it A LOT worse than me. I have more shit than I could ever ask for. And I'm usually pretty happy if I don't think about the shit in society that urks me. Ignorance is bliss? But in recent years I've learned that I feel better away from it, and it's my new 'goal'. I hate that word. I hate goals. But I don't know how else to describe it.
At first it's just gonna be a ski cabin, but eventually it's gonna be home. I've been planning and looking before I ever joined this forum. My wife is on board. I just need to not get fired for a little longer... some days it's tough...
Re: Ski Bum 101?
OOOH!!!
A FURRY!
Climbers LIKE fuzzy-wuzzy Sheepy girls. Sheep have GREAT history in climbing.
I still have a clean Wolf costume, you wanna get eaten?
I'll tell my wife I'm going Skiing.
A FURRY!
Climbers LIKE fuzzy-wuzzy Sheepy girls. Sheep have GREAT history in climbing.
I still have a clean Wolf costume, you wanna get eaten?
I'll tell my wife I'm going Skiing.
Re: Ski Bum 101?
"Cretin": such a great word. Makes me think about the Ramones:MikeK wrote: I don't want to be a fuckin' cretin,
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MikeK
Re: Ski Bum 101?
RJ - you need to get your posts up man! I looked and you are only at 39! You actually got a place where they don't get deleted, get on that shit!
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Johnny
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2256
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:11 pm
- Location: Quebec / Vermont
- Ski style: Dancing with God with leathers / Racing against the machine with plastics
- Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, XCD Comps, Objectives and S98s
- Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska XP, Alfa Guards, Scarpa TX Comp
- Occupation: Full-time ski bum
Re: Ski Bum 101?
Ahahahahah! I guess I've always been a real ski bum then...lurking the 'caf making soup out of ketchup and crackers off he salad bar, swiping plates off of empty tables after the actual customers left and eating the leftovers
You guys are very lucky. The only reason why you are here is because you did something good before. The reason you are alive is because you already learned a lot. Or else you would be a rock or a fern. But that also means that there's still a lot to learn. And it has nothing to do with income, retirement or science.
You are actually into something very, very special right now. You are alive. And very lucky to be so. Hey! This is it, this is your chance! Are you really going to waste it by working and seeking alpha? That would be a shame since you are a very precious and very special being.
The only goal is to become one with God. Everything else is a waste of time. And time flies...
Telemark? Yep, I call it "Dancing with God"...
Exactly.Learn, improve, and teach
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
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MikeK
Re: Ski Bum 101?
What's wrong with being a rock or a fern? Seems pretty nice to me.
Maybe I can go backwards and be a fern again?
Maybe I can go backwards and be a fern again?
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MikeK
Re: Ski Bum 101?
I think I'm lucky I've spent my time in engineering. I know a few things, good and bad. I'd like to apply that to the rest of my life.
If left to live like I do now, I'd never be able to retire. It's impossible. I don't save enough money to sustain this... but, I have a lot of stuff that I like that will last longer than me: my boats, most of my camping gear, bike frames, tools, etc. If I stay in consumer society I'll just keep changing, and I know I don't need to - next phone, next computer, next bike tire, next ski. I could be perfectly happy with less than I have now. I don't need a new car every 3 years if I don't drive. I don't need utilities if I have solar, hand, wind and tree power. I don't need a big house in the elite neighborhood (don't have that now, don't want it). I know how to raise chickens and pigs. I hate cutting the fucking grass. I hate having to drive 10 miles to work and 200 miles to play.
I've been looking for the perfect piece of land for the last 5 years. Still don't know though - it's been thought out to make the transition. To be close enough to 'home' to start the move. It has to be cheap enough (house + land) to be debt free when I get out of the city.
I've spent a lot of time thinking how to do this and how I could work in my new area. That has always been the issue. I think I need to let that go - need to engineer it so I don't need much money to sustain, that way I can be less reliant on work and the economy.
If left to live like I do now, I'd never be able to retire. It's impossible. I don't save enough money to sustain this... but, I have a lot of stuff that I like that will last longer than me: my boats, most of my camping gear, bike frames, tools, etc. If I stay in consumer society I'll just keep changing, and I know I don't need to - next phone, next computer, next bike tire, next ski. I could be perfectly happy with less than I have now. I don't need a new car every 3 years if I don't drive. I don't need utilities if I have solar, hand, wind and tree power. I don't need a big house in the elite neighborhood (don't have that now, don't want it). I know how to raise chickens and pigs. I hate cutting the fucking grass. I hate having to drive 10 miles to work and 200 miles to play.
I've been looking for the perfect piece of land for the last 5 years. Still don't know though - it's been thought out to make the transition. To be close enough to 'home' to start the move. It has to be cheap enough (house + land) to be debt free when I get out of the city.
I've spent a lot of time thinking how to do this and how I could work in my new area. That has always been the issue. I think I need to let that go - need to engineer it so I don't need much money to sustain, that way I can be less reliant on work and the economy.