How Do I Turn?

[lowangle al]

A long skinny ski with little sidecut and a stiff camber will take a lot more speed to turn than a wider ski with an alpine camber, soft flex and lots of sidecut and rocker.

Learning on double camber skis is tough. They require a lot more input from the skier. A single camber ski with lots of sidecut will turn by itself just by weighting the edge, and at a lower speed.

mca, good observation on the difference between skidding and carving. It took me ten years to figure that out. I stuck with a dbl camber ski for 15 years before switching to a single camber ski. I'm sure I would have figured it out a lot sooner if I started with a single camber ski.

[lowangle al]

To add to what MSU said about needing speed to create an arc. Since skinny skis don't have a lot of sidecut in order to do a short radius turn they need to be bent, and that takes speed and energy.

[Montana St Alum]

Absolutely. It wasn't until I got short skis with LOTS of sidecut that I figured out how to consistently carve. In fact, I got those skis just to speed up the learning curve.

[lowangle al]

I would be leary of useing that video to look for good examples of a good stance. Most of them were too spread out, I only saw a few good examples. That rear foot should be more under your butt than behind it.

Agree, with what little I know. They look sloppy too, in the racing bit. Was just focused on which ones were carving and which were skidding, etc.

The best video was the one Johnny posted of the old Italian instructors. Those guys looked incredible.

What about the video I just posted to the movies thread? His rear is still pretty far back some of the time, but it looks a lot better than most of the racers.

Those are good drills but yes, he is too spread out fore/ aft.
As gear changed and people got better their style changed from that classic look of the eighties to the more compact stance that we shoot for today. The compact stance works better with the old gear too.

[GrimSurfer]

I like the videos by @Tom M and Jared Manninen (Tahoe Trail Guide). Their stuff isn’t flashy like a Teton GR reel. It’s way more useful because they go slow and break things down.

If they weren’t doing that, they’d be carving geometrically perfect turns. They’ve got the skills. They’re just breaking it down for our benefit.

[GrimSurfer]

It was the “going fast enough to put enough pressure on the skis to [contraction of “in order to”?] really carve turns” that confused me. I’ve never seen speed having anything to do with pressure (or vice versa) setting up for a turn.

In a turn? Of course.

Unless you can go from 2mph to 15mph in the length of a ski, speed PRIOR to the turn definitely helps IN the turn!

We’re saying the same thing. Speed is speed, pressure is pressure… the two don’t start to connect until you’re in the turn .

I can go as fast as my sisu takes me. It’s not going to change how I pressure my skis… UNTIL I turn.

The reason I asked for a clarification was to benefit @mca80. He’s staring out, so may have been left with the misimpression that more speed would give him some kind of pressure advantage *before* setting the lead and dropping his knee.

Better at this stage to keep it slow so he can apply the movements slowly and deliberately. Speed will come later.

[mca80]

The reason I asked for a clarification was to benefit @mca80. He’s staring out, so may have been left with the misimpression that more speed would give him some kind of pressure advantage *before* setting the lead and dropping his knee.

Better at this stage to keep it slow so he can apply the movements slowly and deliberately. Speed will come later.

So is it like if you're taking a car on a winding road, you hit the gas as you enter the turn despite entering slowly and therefore, having entered more slowly and with more control into the turn, the car picks up speed _through_ the turn without sacrificing control?

[mca80]

Those are good drills but yes, he is too spread out fore/ aft.
As gear changed and people got better their style changed from that classic look of the eighties to the more compact stance that we shoot for today. The compact stance works better with the old gear too.

Great, thanks! Learning what to look for a little bit better when watching video now thanks to you.

As for my gear, not many people here have skiied Kongsvold. And I am not terribly knowledgeable with the ski technology. Asnes says it is stiffer in midsection with soft tip. I know the sidecut is bigger than any but the Tind lineup. Is this a good one to learn with when there's powder, or would I be better off with Nansen?

Also in regards to @GrimSurfer talking about muscle memory and learning early on, as I have the tele class in 2.5 weeks should I hold off, or keep doing what I am doing? I kinda wish I had taken a regular classic xc lesson when I started, instead of just going out skiing 10hrs a week last winter. Maybe with the lessons coming up starting next week I can correct whatever bad habits I have taught myself.

[Montana St Alum]

It's probably a good thing babies learn to walk before they learn to talk or teenagers would still be crawling.

I'd say just go out and ski. Lessons are great but you probably won't be irredeemable in such a short amount of time.

[GrimSurfer]

Those are good drills but yes, he is too spread out fore/ aft.
As gear changed and people got better their style changed from that classic look of the eighties to the more compact stance that we shoot for today. The compact stance works better with the old gear too.

Great, thanks! Learning what to look for a little bit better when watching video now thanks to you.

As for my gear, not many people here have skiied Kongsvold. And I am not terribly knowledgeable with the ski technology. Asnes says it is stiffer in midsection with soft tip. I know the sidecut is bigger than any but the Tind lineup. Is this a good one to learn with when there's powder, or would I be better off with Nansen?

Also in regards to @GrimSurfer talking about muscle memory and learning early on, as I have the tele class in 2.5 weeks should I hold off, or keep doing what I am doing? I kinda wish I had taken a regular classic xc lesson when I started, instead of just going out skiing 10hrs a week last winter. Maybe with the lessons coming up starting next week I can correct whatever bad habits I have taught myself.

Those lessons will be great, man.

I sort of relate where you are atm. I never took a swim lesson. Eventually became a navy diver and rescue swimmer. I have more water sense than swimming skill.

I taught my daughter how to avoid drowning when she was a kid… not being an instructor, jumping off towers in clothes, treading water for minutes, and basic stroke was the best I could do for a six year old. Mini BUDS. My wife couldn’t watch it.

By nine, she started formal lessons. Eventually got her lifeguard quals and was a competitive swimmer in university.

Who can swim better, the navy diver or the (now) exhausted mother of three? The mother of three… any day, any time. She can kick my ass in a pool. Beautifully efficient stroke is all she knows. Me? I can do a good stroke if I concentrate but it eventually goes to $hit when I tire.

Open ocean in 10’ waves? I have an edge in keeping my cool but it would take me longer than her to get out of the impact zone.

With two weeks to go, I’d work on those XC skills. Keep it light and easy…. The instructor will have you doing more cool stuff in the first 15 minutes than you’re likely to find (or do well) on your own.

No crime either way… just an issue of best use of time and enjoyment.

My 2 cents… Canadian, so maybe one cent. Ha ha