Time Travel

[paul kalac]

Mike, if you come to Wells to ski Pine Orchard, look me up in Gloversville!!

[MikeK]

It was a last minute decision Paul. The cover was terrible, and this thread got me missing those trees.

I want to ski to the ones near Pigeon Lake, but my wife isn't so excited about that trip.

[lilcliffy]

Those are old white pine Mike- I can clearly see the distinctive bark in those pictures.

They show evidence of past fire scars too.

Great photos.

[lilcliffy]

The oldest white pine that I have aged in NB are a little over 300 years- they were in that 2m diameter range.

360 year-old red pine was discovered in northern NB a few years ago- though nowhere near as big as old white pine.

There are a few red spruce left in the Fundy Ecoregion that are over 400 years old.

There are record eastern hemlock over 800 years- but the record-breakers in the east are 1200 year-old eastern white cedar, growing on limestone cliffs (they are quite small).

Old forests are awe-inspiring to me regardless of size- to me, 300 year-old balsam fir, cloaked head-to-toe in arboreal lichens and bryophytes, in the boreal rainforests of the Long Range Mountains, are every bit as spectacular as 800-year-old giant Sitka spruce, in the coastal temperate rainforests of BC.

[MikeK]

As much as I would love to see giant cedars and redwoods (and am saddened that they are harvested), I really do enjoy seeing things like this. It's a good reminder that we need to protect these areas and that because the east was generally ravaged much longer ago than the west, there's potential that some areas can start to return to the way they once were.

I must add, it's much more fun to ski to see old trees than it is to hike!

[Teleman]

In Tall Trees, Tough Men....by Robert E. Pike.....White Pine @ 200 feet high and 10 feet in diameter....@ 1000 years old....When we skied the Old Growth.....loggers had taken all but the oldest and remotest Pines and other softwoods....Hardwood didn't float well and Logging had not progressed until the skidder finally got up there....Ene of Old Growth, but after 15 years or so...er....or so....there might be some openings for a trip down to Flagg Pond....or not...TM

[connyro]

This is a great thread!

Out my way, in the hardwood forests near lake Superior, the tops of the ridges here are usually covered with old growth Hemlocks with a few old white pines mixed in. They cut the forests out here quite a bit later than out east (1890s-1920s) and at the time, they were not using Hemlock for any commercial purposes, so the ones that were hard to get to at the top of ridges were left. Hemlocks don't let anything else grow nearby, so we get these almost cathedral-like micro-stands with little if any underbrush or diversity. We've got a few of these old growth groves throughout the property.

We've also have super-old white cedars here too. I'm not sure what the strategy was back when they first cut out here, but you can find ENORMOUS old cedar stumps mixed in with standing cedars that are mostly the same size as the trees that the stumps belonged to. One MTB ride that involved bushwhacking through the woods (lost) revealed the largest cedar tree in Michigan! It had a little sign on it that said so. The funny thing was that the actual largest cedar (now a giant charred stump) had been struck by lightning many years previous, so the sign was moved to another cedar in that grove that looked like it was offspring from the original 'largest' cedar.

Once in a while, while exploring through the woods here, you find an occasional giant hardwood specimen. This summer, while working with a logger and forester, I stumbled across a sugar maple that we estimated to have a DBH of 35+ inches. It's a solid 80 feet tall and with a perfectly healthy and monstrous crown and stem. Somehow, it was never cut and is much larger than any other maple I've ever seen, by a long shot. We won't be cutting it either.

[lilcliffy]

Awesome to get your perspective from your neck of the woods!

they were not using Hemlock for any commercial purposes, so the ones that were hard to get to at the top of ridges were left.

Not sure about the Northern Great Lakes Region- in the Northeast, eastern hemlock stands were harvested intensively for the tannin found in hemlock bark. In the extreme northeast ( i.e. at hemlock's northern limit), such as New Brunswick, and northern Maine- hemlock never recovered from this intensive harvesting (i.e. the hemlock stands did not regenerate with hemlock- they became spruce-fir-hardwood forests).

Good article on hemlock and the tannin industry: http://northernwoodlands.org/articles/a ... d-new-york

Eastern hemlock timber is heavy, strong and durable- but it is brittle. It generally makes much better large dimension timbers than construction-grade lumber. But some of the most beautiful flooring I've ever seen is clear, hemlock flooring in farm houses, in western Nova Scotia (which is warm enough to be hemlock country).

I have used hemlock primarily in bridge building.

Hemlocks don't let anything else grow nearby, so we get these almost cathedral-like micro-stands with little if any underbrush or diversity. We've got a few of these old growth groves throughout the property.

Hemlock-dominated stands are allelopathic when they are "young"- inhibiting tree and shrub regeneration. As hemlock stands get really old, the allelopathy diminishes as canopy gaps form- allowing thickets of regeneration to establish. It may be hard to believe, but a dense, closed-canopy hemlock stand (with an open understory) is still relatively young (even if the trees are "old"). Eventually, hemlock stands begin to break up as very old trees gradually die- the stand enters a truly old development stage and becomes multi-aged and full of canopy gaps.

We've also have super-old white cedars here too. I'm not sure what the strategy was back when they first cut out here, but you can find ENORMOUS old cedar stumps mixed in with standing cedars that are mostly the same size as the trees that the stumps belonged to. One MTB ride that involved bushwhacking through the woods (lost) revealed the largest cedar tree in Michigan! It had a little sign on it that said so. The funny thing was that the actual largest cedar (now a giant charred stump) had been struck by lightning many years previous, so the sign was moved to another cedar in that grove that looked like it was offspring from the original 'largest' cedar.

Eastern white cedar currently holds the record for the oldest trees in the northeast.

Once in a while, while exploring through the woods here, you find an occasional giant hardwood specimen. This summer, while working with a logger and forester, I stumbled across a sugar maple that we estimated to have a DBH of 35+ inches. It's a solid 80 feet tall and with a perfectly healthy and monstrous crown and stem. Somehow, it was never cut and is much larger than any other maple I've ever seen, by a long shot. We won't be cutting it either.

The most productive sugar maple sites in the world are in the northern Great Lakes region- nutrient-rich, fine-textured soils, combined with a hot humid growing season.

In the Maritimes, the climate and soils are less ideal for sugar maple (the best sites are in northwestern NB). Yellow birch on the other hand loves the cool, humid climate. Yellow birch in our region can grow to over 2 meters in diameter, and up to 400 years old. We used to have spectacular beech trees in our forests that have been decimated by beech scale disease.

[athabascae]

Great photos Mike! Those are amazing trees!

Eastern white cedar currently holds the record for the oldest trees in the northeast.

Yes, I believe some of the oldest ones are super tiny, growing on limestone cliffs in Ontario. Seeing them, you'd never guess they were that old...

[MikeK]

Thanks boys!

If you get a chance, I'd love to see your trees and landscapes.