interesting old 3-pin Telemark instructional video

[lilcliffy]

Anyone seen this one yet? Sorry if it is already posted somewhere here- don't check the video thread very much.

[Digger]

I had not seen that one before but it reminds me of the classic NATO videos and what I would imagine Steve Barnett and Paul Parker would have done with his book if videos were big back then. Classic Nordic tele. Many techniques. Steps, stems, christies, and smooth turns.

[lilcliffy]

It is very old school from my perspective...

What I notice is how much weight is on the leading/dowhill foot.

Also- how high his heel lift is on his trailing leg.

Regardless- what impresses me the most is how "alive" his feet are and how easily he weights and unweights his skis.

Clearly demonstrates how "Telemark" technique evolved from XC striding,

[lowangle al]

That is a good video to show how technique or style has changed over the years. I don't know why the early practitioners of modern telemark skied with such a spread out stance. Even on the old equipment a modern tight stance w/o dropping the knee so low works much better. I think that old style must have been a holdover from the days of wood skis and leather straps for bindings.

It's hard enough to get the rear ski to turn in sinc with the lead ski when your toe of that rear boot is under your butt and you have the full ball of your foot on the ski. Now move that ski back behind your butt and get less of the ball of your foot on the ski (because your knee is low) and itwill never turn in sinc with the lead ski. Turning the skis in sinc was never a goal in old style technique anyway though.

There was at least one run where the guy had his rear foot under him where it should be, and that was the one he was skiing a tight line down through bumps around 6 minutes. Becausehe was making such quick turns he didn't have time to let his leg go back so far.

It was a nice video and I liked his wool bib knickers.

[Harris]

This is probably early 1980s. Looks like he is using Asolo Extremes (low top lace ups) with Berghaus gators, which had a rubber "last" that wrapped around the full boot right at the sole from toe to heel (they were the thing but a real pain in the ass; the toe always slipped up, despite the fact the band was tight as hell to get over the boot, and they were difficult to get to your lacing). I bring this up because compared to modern boots and pants, his setup is much skinnier and visually exaggerates his stance split. I see a lot of "expert" skiers today skiing every bit as splayed out and fore footed. But, having been a telemarker back then, I would also say he is NOT exemplary of what the better telemarkers were doing. Personally I have never stem Christie a tele turn. Never. Frankly there were very, very few telemarkers in the late 70s and early 80s and of those few there were but a scant microcosm of folks really pushing the technique. You would have to see vids of pro guys like Mark Lance and Clifton Garland to get an idea of how the sport could be done back then. This guy is not that skier. He would be an average tele skier who is just dragging his aft ski around in control, using it for balance, which many still do today. But as far as getting low, you had to. You had to for stability. Those old Asolo Extremes and Snowpines were sloppy, single boots. No liners and rather thin leather. In fact you would crack the welts in about 30 days of skiing resort. There was almost no torsional rigidity and sneaker like fore and aft. The way you got the inside ski to bite was by getting low and putting what felt like 80% of your weight on it, which to so could only be done by having the heel right under your butt, and with the long skinnies (most of us were on 210s) you could actually edge them in tandem pretty well. It was a very muscular, taxing turn. The skis also had a shitload of camber, much more than the alpine skis, and they would spring you from turn to turn when turned rapid fire. I could actually turn my boards a lot quicker down steep runs back on the old gear than I can on the new stuff, which are a heavier, blunter, more dampened tool today. Another also, for GS radius turns a lot of us who raced used a turn that incorporated a tele initiation with a parallel, alpine racing style finishing turn. In fact the rule was that at least part of the turn had to be tele, but only part. Sometimes for fun I still do those turns while ripping groomers.

[Harris]

This isn't a boast but a point I'm trying to make about comments about "early telemarkers." I and others were skiing every bit as good in 1984/5 as the guys shown "1990" on out from the 9:40 mark on my 75mil, 205 cm Kazamas with Merrill SuperComp, leather boots, which are what those guys are wearing. The all plastics didn't come out until the mid-90s.

[Harris]

1983.The Merrill SuperComps would come out the next year, and you wouldn't believe me if I told you how many "traditional telemarkers" would ski up to me in lift lines and flip me shit for having half leather/half plastic boots after buying a pair. In 1986 I was the only guy at Crested Butte to start skiing tele bindings on alpine boards, and again I got a rash of shit. And everyone who gave me shit were sorry ass skiers. But as for "1980"s technique," look where my inside ski ski tip is (halfway between lead tip and lead boot).

[Harris]

1986. Banging bumps down Teluride"s "The Plunge," which the pic doesn't show well, but is every bit a 40 degree zipper line run.

[Harris]

My point is I get a little torqued when I hear guys talk about early telemarking like today is so much different and advanced. It really isn't. The only things much different is that you can bust crud and jump better on the new gear. Much better, but the turn is still the same.

[lowangle al]

I stand by what I say about technique and style changing over the years, but maybe things were different in Colorado than they were in Vermont back in the 80s.

I'm sure Harris is more experienced than me, I would never be able to tell what kind of boot a guy is wearing when they are covered from the Norwegian welt up by a supergaiter.

I was there then and I still ski that gear now.