Johnny, Pierre, and the beast. Or the new Telemark Tech Norm (TTN) vs the future of XCD (NTN-BC)

[bgregoire]

It's still a secret...

In the meantime, the XCD Satanic Society, a lesser known grassroots collective known to encourage benevolence and empathy among all skiers, asked me to chip in to address a certain misrepresentation of binding weights that has been shared here on Ttalk for some time. You see, the XCD Satanic Society "upholds that beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs." So here it goes, the corrected weights (per pair) of various XCD/nordic backcountry/telemark bindings (as advertised by the manufacturers):

370g Rottefella Super Telemark 3-Pin
440g Voile HD Mountaineer 3-Pin
444g Rottefella NNN-BC Auto
472g Rottefella NNN-BC Manual
529g Rottefella NNN-BC Magnum
530g Rottefella XPLORE
810g Voile 3-Pin Cable
962g Rottefella Super Telemark with Cable
984g M Equipment Meidjo
998g Voile 3-Pin Cable Traverse
1290g Voile 3-Pin Hardwire
1362g Voile Switchback
1420g Voile Switchback X2

The XCD Satanic representatives insisted I underline the relative lightness and relevance of the Rotte ST and Voile 3Pin to the sport and their excitement with regards to the upcoming XPlore binding system. Hail Satan. Hail XCD. Be Happy.

[lowangle al]

Thanks Ben, we probably would have waited a long time for the "XCD Knights" to get this straightened out.

The weight makes them look pretty appealing at just a little over 3 oz more than a basic 3 pin. The boot looks good to me too. If it had the DH control of a T4 and toured like an Alpina Alaska and came in a EEEE width I'd be in. And I've never tried nnn bc, maybe this is what I've been waiting for.

[Johnny]

Johnny, I think some of your binding weights are for a pair of bindings and some for one binding. Rottefella XPLORE is 530g/pair and 265g pr binding. Same with NNN BC, I'm quite sure NNN BC Magnum is 260 g pr binding.

Oh, you are right about NNN-BC... My bad... It's funny that it took almost a year for someone to notice... It shows that NNN-BC skiers don't really care about weight... (Or that no one cares about NNN-BC? )

[Transplantskier]

Oh, you are right about NNN-BC... My bad... It's funny that it took almost a year for someone to notice... It shows that NNN-BC skiers don't really care about weight... (Or that no one cares about NNN-BC? )

I'm undecided on how I feel about this new binding idea specifically because of this weight topic. I'm quite happy with the performance I can get from my NNN BC setup, and I really just want them to put some effort into trimming weight off of that binding standard.

Obviously the price point and design efforts are drastically different, but if the top skimo bindings are now getting down to 92 grams (per pair!!!) then surely it must be possible to shed some of the 500-ish grams (per pair) off the NNN BC binding.

One of these looks sleek and like efforts were made to trim every once of fat. The other looks less so.

When I see wealthy beginners using newly acquired overkill AT setups to trundle around on low angle hikes, it's hard to blame them for not understanding the gear.The top notch AT setup that a wealthy person could buy is probably even lighter than my XCD Crispi Stetind --> Åsnes Nansen setup. Hopefully the gram counting mindset from skimo makes its way over to XCD design a bit more someday.

[Johnny]

Obviously the price point and design efforts are drastically different, but if the top skimo bindings are now getting down to 92 grams (per pair!!!) then surely it must be possible to shed some of the 500-ish grams (per pair) off the NNN BC binding.

Yep, that is pretty much what I said here:
http://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3027#p31399

In fact, it's quite what Rotte did with the XPLORE... A Dynafit Pintech system with pins on the boots...
Only with an added NNN type flexor underneath the toes...
(And "a few" more grams... )

[Transplantskier]

Yes, I guess it's on the right track.

But in my hypothetical dream world, they'd somehow develop something in the NNN BC world that is pretty literally just the bumper, bar, and rails. Something that doesn't require new boots (although lighter boots are of course wonderful too).

Of course that's just my fairytale land. In reality they probably need to sell lots of new boots to justify money spent developing new binding systems. And it's probably pretty tough to take an already existing strong design and refine for lightness...

[Johnny]

Fairytale lands are the fabric of this world...

Remember 4lbs NTN in 2006? Pretty sure this is what will happen again. Personally, I sure will start modding the XPLORE and building my own 99g XP-TECH binding as soon as the boots are available...

@Bri7, will your new machine shop ready for the summer? Better start pouring that concrete soon... Because I already ordered a few bars of pure Beskar for making modded XPLORE toes...

[zonca]

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Since these pins move in and out my question is will there be problems with grit or ice fouling them. With the tight clearance apparent in this image probably grit won't get in there but humidity goes everywhere so I can imagine ice forming behind the pin in some situations. Probably they have considered this and some cleverness inside will make the problem vanishingly small when we see it in the real world.

[Rodbelan]

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Since these pins move in and out ...

What do you mean exactly? The pins don't seem to move in and out... to me at least — but I am not sure. There are gutters that align the pins and they probably snap in place with pressure. The lever seems to act as a locker for the pins. And in and out of the binding will de-ice them...

[turnfarmer]

Doesn't look like the listed to TTips request for a free pivot mode.

Boots will determine my interest in this setup.

Needs a T4 type boot with better ball of foot flex.