ski recommendation

[freethemind]

When I asked around what telemark skis I should get I've been getting contradictory responses:

"Go short - Telemark stance is far longer than a normal alpine stance"
"Go long - longer skis give much better directional stability"

"Go Soft - you can't flex the skis as well. You'll get tired quickly with stiff skis"
"Go stiff - you'll be able to flex way more than alpine"

As you see I got really confused. From my personal experience I ski less aggressively on tele, partly because I'm not as good as tele as I'm on alpine and partly because I get tired much quicker on tele (though the two points may be interlinked - perhaps the reason I get tired quicker is that I'm not as good and am not telemarking efficiently).

I'm hoping to get a new pair of all mountain tele skis and wonder if anyone could give me some recommendations.

My understanding is that not all skis can have tele bindings mounted. Black-crow skis for one can’t. https://www.black-crows.com/na/us_en/warranty/ Their warranty doesn’t cover “Damage to Freebird skis from using telemark bindings (as the ski construction is not designed to withstand the levels of torsion resulting from the leverage created by telemark bindings on the ski).

So Blackcrow is out. Head Kore has some really good reviews but seems a bit stiff. Besides the lack of metal in the core makes me wonder if I could mount tele bindings on them.

I'm down to enforcer 93 and mantra m5. I have tried both at various times (although both on alpine binding). I don't really like enforcer too much as i feel there were some chatters at high speed. I really like the mantra. The problem is that they are quite stiff so not sure how that will translate to telemark. Enforcer is noticeable softer so could perhaps tele better??

Open to other skis recommendation of course.

A separate question: what length should I get? Should I get longer or shorter than Alpine? I skied 185cm/184cm on enforcer 93 and m5. I'm 183cm and 75kg.

Some stats:
Advanced skier
Intermediate telemarker (been only doing it for about 10 weeks)
Currently doing tele on Brahma but bindings got ripped off. Skis are beyond repair.

Thanks

[Woodserson]

I have to make this short due to lack of keyboard. I'm 188cm and 75kg.

I, personally, me, don't worry about the warrantee thing. Your peace of mind may be different. Some freebirds have metal underfoot, though some mounting points are smaller than a standard 4 screw binding. Voile has no metal in their standard line and no problems, though they don't warrantee their HYPER constructions, it's a wood type issue for them. I wail on my Objectives (hyper construction ski) and no problems but I'm using a relatively low power binding and a soft T4 boot when I ski that ski.

I like round flexing skis around a 180cm, though my shorter skis for banging around my local hill are 172 and my longer skis for big mountain and deep snow are 183. I don't like stiff skis for tele for many of the reasons you stated.

Wait I just reread your post.. when you say ripped off.. . You mean you ripped them out? What binding? What boot? Who mounted them?

[Woodserson]

Here's your solution, actually:

https://summitcone.com/

Get the Pariah 97 in a 177 and Bob's Your Uncle. Peace of mind, nice flex, done and done.

[lowangle al]

Generally speaking I'd say go shorter than your alpine skis. For one thing since your skis are pretty much equally weighted and staggered for and aft you get better float. The other thing is that it is more difficult to turn a ski with only the ball of your foot weighting it, and it's behind you. A soft flexing ski helps too.

[freethemind]

Wait I just reread your post.. when you say ripped off.. . You mean you ripped them out? What binding? What boot? Who mounted them?

NTN freedom binding with scarpa tx. Yea sorry ripped out. I have them mount in a specialist backcountry ski shop(not just a normal alpine ski shop)

[Woodserson]

Wow man, you are like a monster skier because it's not like that combination is no-no on telemark, seems very reasonable to me.

I think you're going to be OK with any ski that has a layer of metal in it or metal in the mounting zone, to the point that if you're ripping out NTNs out of the Brahma it can happen to any ski. Maybe you did something just right or some water got into the wood (which is why I ask if I shop did it vs your buddy Bob who was tanked on beer at the time).

If you've got the hots for Black Crows, maybe get their non-Freebird series, a lot of them have metal. But then you'll lose the warrantee, so that's your call.

[MSU Alum]

Regarding mounting tele bindings, if you ski aggressively, or ski backcountry on gear that includes stiffer boots and active bindings, I'd recommend using inserts. I've pulled bindings out of skis before and I'm only 5'8" tall and 155 or so. I ski bumps out west, a lot, and the torque involved will pull a binding. If you are backcountry and it happens, it'll be a very unpleasant experience.

They're not that expensive, make the mount bombproof, and allow you to transfer bindings between skis if you want to use a single binding between multiple pairs of skis.
I usually have the shop drill the holes (they have the equipment and templates to do a good job and will only charge about $15) and then I install the inserts.

Ski warranties are for manufacturing defects. Black Crow's site also says they won't replace your skis if they fall off your truck. I wouldn't get rid of my truck over it. I jest, but I expect if you pulled an alpine binding out, you'd be hard pressed to get a warranty replacement unless there was an obvious manufacturing defect that was the cause.

If warranty considerations are important, you would probably do well to buy from REI, Backcountry, or some other retailers who really do stand behind what they sell, above and beyond what the manufacturer provides.

As for length....it depends!
I'm 174cm and 71 kilos and have:
160cm Rossi EXP 84's for carving (82 underfoot)
165cm Atomic Vantage 85's for general bump days (85 underfoot)
172cm Blizzard Rustler 10's for general powder and powder over bump days and general backcountry (102 underfoot)
175cm Armada JJ's for deep days backcountry in the Wasatch (I really should sell these....117 underfoot)
185cm Armada JJ's for monster powder days or Cat skiing. (116 underfoot - earlier version)

With modern gear, you can get away with just about anything.

[greatgt]

Uhhhh....... get the lightest leathers.....Rottafella Super telemark binding......e99's then rip them apart...that's where you learn tele....NOT on ntn.... That's like same old....same old....Good luck! TM

[MSU Alum]

Uhhhh....... get the lightest leathers.....Rottafella Super telemark binding......e99's then rip them apart...that's where you learn tele....NOT on ntn.... That's like same old....same old....Good luck! TM

In 1970 I was skiing backcountry on wooden skis (remember when the metal edges were screwed in?) with Silvretta bindings and hiking boots (which worked with Silvrettas back then) in the Crazy Mountains north of Livingston Montana.

It was fun.

I won't be going back.

Kind of a funny story....New York boy (grew up skiing out east) out west going to Montana State University on a multiday in the Crazies. No experience (of course), bad gear (a sleeping bag good down to about 20 degrees). Serious city slicker. Fortunately, my partner had such a huge sleeping bag that it hung over mine so that, with all my clothes on, I didn't freeze to death in the -20 every damn night.

On about day 3, he has his Primus stove out - pressurizing it and trying to get it lit - and I have put a can of beans down near the fire to warm up (what happens next, you ask?). Well, of course, it blew up, knocking him over from his perch on a downed tree. Anyway, we had driven in on a forestry road. 5 days later, we get to the car and it's under 4 feet of snow with drifts for miles. We skied out to a bar in Big Timber, Montana, about 30 miles away. Took forever. Leaned the skis on the outside of the building and went in to get shit-faced while waiting for a buddy to drive out from Bozeman to pick us up. He got his car in late April.

Ah, youth!

[Tom M]

[/quote]

In 1970 I was skiing backcountry on wooden skis with Silveretta bindings and mountaineering boots in the Crazy Mountains north of Livingston Montana.

It was fun.

I won't be going back.
[/quote]

The 70's; wooden skis, Silvretta bindings. Good times. The best thing about the 70's was that the snowmobiles of the time couldn't really venture into the high country. It was a place of solitude and untracked snow. It fondly lives on in my memory.