good kick and glide 75mm binding?

[dakartoubab]

RE my skiing style/needs....

hut-to-hut, rolling ups and downs, through sometimes cruddy snow on narrow trails in the Pacific NW w/ a fantasy of pointing them down a steepish, strip of clear-cut as may appear (with better snow!).
Also: an occasional desire to hit the resorts and eat humble pie doing the same as the clear-cut option above but now marked as "expert run"

all the above with an unexplained desire to keep it as old-school as possible; i.e., as opposite as TX Comp-NTN-twintip-yaddi-dah as you can get but some nod to modern; hence the appeal of the plastic exoskeleton and hence my question - still unanswered - how do the Svartisen's (or the Rossignol BC X12's... thanks for that suggestion, BTW) bend at the bellows?

[bgregoire]

RE my skiing style/needs....

hut-to-hut, rolling ups and downs, through sometimes cruddy snow on narrow trails in the Pacific NW w/ a fantasy of pointing them down a steepish, strip of clear-cut as may appear (with better snow!).
Also: an occasional desire to hit the resorts and eat humble pie doing the same as the clear-cut option above but now marked as "expert run"

all the above with an unexplained desire to keep it as old-school as possible; i.e., as opposite as TX Comp-NTN-twintip-yaddi-dah as you can get but some nod to modern; hence the appeal of the plastic exoskeleton and hence my question - still unanswered - how do the Svartisen's (or the Rossignol BC X12's... thanks for that suggestion, BTW) bend at the bellows?

The Svartisen (MikeK, please confirm) bends quite like most softer injection molded 75 mm boots (that means, probably softer than your Asolo's). The Rossi BC X 12 (beware of the other models) is stiffer. How much? perhaps similar to your asolos...hard to say precisely...

What is wrong with your asolos when used on your hut-to-hut tours? If they are fine, why not invest in a stiffer oldsckool leather (alico blaze for instance whi has an internal plastic skeleton within the layers of leather) for your resoirt skiing? that way, you have have the best of both worlds, just not at the same time. If you really want to go exoskeleton/new age (not always better in my opinion, especially with regards to durability and support, but usually more comfy), i think you will find better ankle support in the BC12 than the Svartisen. Another interesting option is something like the now extinct Karhu XCD Descent. Now i just stumbled upon a brand new pair yestarday, can't wait to try them!

Definitely go Voile 3PC for your bindings given your objectives.

[dakartoubab]

Alico Blaze boot.
Now THAT'S what I'm looking for. Thank you, BGregoire!!!
Any ideas where to buy in North America??

[lilcliffy]

My preferred 75mm binding for XCD is the 75mm-3-pin cable. Currently have the Voile.

I have to say that my personal experience is that the 3pc is the most versatile XCD binding available.

Without the cable you have a standard 75mm-3-pin xcountry binding- with a completely free heel.

Then- when you need the downhill power- you can attach the heel cable.

And- at least in my own experience I find the heel cable makes a huge difference. The heel cable increases both lateral, torsional strength and leverage- it also increase binding resistance- resulting in increased downward force into the ski, flattening and "reverse-cambering" the ski- transferring downward force into edge power.

To be honest- I am very puzzled at the suggestion that the heel cable is useless...

IMHO- all other powerful telemark bindings are made for big-mountain, extreme terrain- they offer incredible power- but with the trade-off of having too much resistance for efficient K&G.

The free-pivot modes of modern tele bindings have too little resistance for efficient K&G- that free-pivot is designed for climbing.

Based on previous discussions on the forum- I can understand why the cable attachment can be a "pain" with yo-yo skiing. But if your mountain XCD skiing included long distances of xcountry K&G, in between steep climbs and descents- then the 3pc gives the ideal balance.

[bgregoire]

Alico Blaze boot.
Now THAT'S what I'm looking for. Thank you, BGregoire!!!
Any ideas where to buy in North America??

She is a beauty, had one that i just sold before xmas. They are no longer made but can be found on the used market (ebay) if lucky and, er, patient. they will last a lifetime. I sold mine off because my excursions are more comfy with a thermomouldable liner and lighter. They are a little better for K&G mind you but i have softer boots for that. The closest thing you can find still made is the alico double (at sierra trading post).

[bgregoire]

To be honest- I am very puzzled at the suggestion that the heel cable is useless...

At least for myself, I did not mean they are useless, I have simply found it more enjoyable overall to leave them at home. Hey, its a good thing to try it out. Its good for some, less for other. no probs.

If i'm aiming for steep XCD descents, I'll take my excursions out anyway, and they provide me with sufficient control and power. There is no way I will K&G with the cables on (or any spring/cartridge binding) and its so slick just to zip up and down a hill without having to take off my skis, open my pack, install the cables and bind up again before heading down.

[athabascae]

That Alico Blaze is one sexy boot

[lilcliffy]

If i'm aiming for steep XCD descents, I'll take my excursions out anyway, and they provide me with sufficient control and power. There is no way I will K&G with the cables on (or any spring/cartridge binding) and its so slick just to zip up and down a hill without having to take off my skis, open my pack, install the cables and bind up again before heading down.

I totally understand this- and yet another example of the flexibility of 75mm-3-pin- using a more rigid boot to get more downhill power without having to use the heel cable.

And YES- K&G with the cables on is brutal- WAY too much resistance!!!

But just because putting on the heel cable is inconvenient (and it certainly can be- especially with low vertical gains) doesn't make it obsolete.

I just wanted to be to clear as to the "why" people do or do not choose to use the heel cable.

[connyro]

The free-pivot modes of modern tele bindings have too little resistance for efficient K&G- that free-pivot is designed for climbing.

I've spent quite a bit of time on free pivot bindings (Voile SB and SBx2) and I find your comment above inaccurate, IME. We tour several miles to get out into the bigger hills and terrain and some in our group prefer using SBs as opposed to 3-pins when using lite plastic/heavy leather boots. You CAN get good K+G with free pivot bindings IF you adjust your technique. Excursions in 3-pin bindings have much more resistance than Excursions in free pivot bindings. IF you can bend the sole of the Excursions during your stride, you can get really good kick. Plus, when it comes time to ski down, you've got a great binding for downhill control. The one problem that I have with the SB bindings is that they weight 3 LBS while 3-pins are usually under a pound...

Another option for wider XCD skis is the Burnt Mountain Spike 3-pin (http://burntmtn.com/00SPIKE3pin/sp3pinindex.html).

[bgregoire]

We tour several miles to get out into the bigger hills and terrain and some in our group prefer using SBs as opposed to 3-pins when using lite plastic/heavy leather boots. You CAN get good K+G with free pivot bindings IF you adjust your technique. Excursions in 3-pin bindings have much more resistance than Excursions in free pivot bindings. IF you can bend the sole of the Excursions during your stride, you can get really good kick. Plus, when it comes time to ski down, you've got a great binding for downhill control. The one problem that I have with the SB bindings is that they weight 3 LBS while 3-pins are usually under a pound...

Interesting, I will pay better attention to my technique next time i'm on SBs.

But for K&G for K&G's sake (touring for touring, not on your way to the mountain) one would have to be a masochist to choose a SB over 3-pin (NNNBC/SNSBC) .