Brand new tele skier seeking community guidance

[connyro]

...I am not pleased with the idea of ski leashes. I used them the first 3-4 years of alpine skiing in the 1970s, before Tyrolia worked out problems with their ski brakes. Leashes may be OK on less aggressive terrain but not for black or double-black trees and cliffs.

I'm curious what the limiting factor is for you when using leashes. I ski a fair share of aggressive steep trees and cliffs, sometimes with leashes, sometimes without and have never noticed any difference. I've never released from a 75mm tele binding while skiing so I'm not sure what the difference can possibly be.

[Stephen]

@JohnSKepler, replying to your most recent post.
posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=5005#pr51001
I’m a bit older than you.
Have never had a problem with my knees.
Skied 350 miles, 55K vertical NNN BC 2020/21 (Gamme to Objective with Alfa Guards).
Many spectacular falls, no issues.

2021/22 got Ripstick 96 / T2 / Meidjo 3, skiing mellow resort terrain.
Early in season, and not up to speed on the gear, took a slow (5-10 MPH), twisting fall (caught tip).
No release on the Meidjos (set to very low settings).
Hear LOUD pop and thought I had broken my leg.
Thankfully, not, and skied back to the car and, even though my knee was sore, the joint seemed to be working fine.
Months pass, knee is slowly getting better, but now have a large Baker’s cyst, and occasional knee pain (both knees), probably meniscus damage, and there is one loading dynamic for that knee that used to work, but now causes pain and I don’t trust that load dynamic.
Had MRI, and two different orthopedic surgeons look at it, and, essentially, the advice is “I wouldn’t operate on that and don’t do things that hurt.”

This probably won’t make me give up NTN, but annoys the crap out of me. Hoping for eventual complete recovery (to as before), but not confident I will get that.

Meidjo may be safer than other Telemark / NTN options, but is not as safe as an Alpine style binding.

EDIT:
When I said “early in season” (above) about my fall, it was actually the first day on this new setup (Meidjo / T2).
I went on to ski many more days last winter and became much more proficient.
I think it might have taken 2 or 3 years of human powered skiing on the NTN equipment to get what I got in 10 or 11 days of lift-served skiing last season.
After the first fall, I set the release to the lowest settings (I’m 6’3” / 175#).
I had plenty of falls and the Meidjos did release a few times.

[WildMidwest]

Thank you for providing valuable info about the Meidjo alpine heel. It’s too sad to see breakage at this price point.

I have no idea why an AT rear heel tower could not be used instead? There are so many good ones to choose among… Plum, Dynafit, Hagen, ATK, etc.

[JohnSKepler]

2021/22 got Ripstick 96 / T2 / Meidjo 3, skiing mellow resort terrain.
Early in season, and not up to speed on the gear, took a slow (5-10 MPH), twisting fall (caught tip).
No release on the Meidjos (set to very low settings).
Hear LOUD pop and thought I had broken my leg...

Meidjo may be safer than other Telemark / NTN options, but is not as safe as an Alpine style binding...

@Stephen Blew my left ACL a decade or more ago doing Taekwondo. Had cadaver ligament reconstruction. Months and months and months of recovery. Never felt right. Blew it playing soccer a year or two later. Had my surgeon fit me for a Donjoy and went back to playing soccer several days a week. I was living in the East then and only got to ski every few years but never did get comfortable skiing with the brace though I didn't have any problems either.

Fast forward ten years. Alpine skiing. Spring conditions. Late in the day. Tracked slush had hardened in the afternoon shadow. Low speed twisting fall (caught rear edge I think). No release on the Alpine bindings. Heard and felt a LOUD pop. KNEW it was my right ACL. Far too unstable to ski. Got a free ride down from the ski patrol. I got matching Donjoys and pretty much do what I want but I won't Alpine ski again. That fixed heel is too dangerous for me. I started XC and I like it better anyway which has led to my interest in tele and back country. The ACL is actually of no use when your knee is bent so... better for me!

As for bindings, all releasable bindings require inertia to push you past the break point of the bindings and pop you out. There is an envelope that people find every year where you don't have enough inertia to pop out, but you have enough inertia to pop your ACL. I'm an engineer and have a concept for a binding that could eliminate that envelope. It would be applicable to tele and alpine bindings alike but would likely only be attractive to aficionados. Maybe I'll get time to explore it...

[WildMidwest]

I'm curious what the limiting factor is for you when using leashes. I ski a fair share of aggressive steep trees and cliffs, sometimes with leashes, sometimes without and have never noticed any difference. I've never released from a 75mm tele binding while skiing so I'm not sure what the difference can possibly be.

If the binding never releases, then it's moot. Best wishes in orthopedic surgery.

My reticence with leashes comes from several close personal scrapes, but more notably from a story my lady relates about when she was co-President of her university ski club. She was enjoying her ski trip at Jackson Hole when she was called to pick up the body of a 22-23 year old ski club member who lost control in the Wildcat area of Alta, sustaining a lethal head blow from a ricocheting leashed ski. My lady flew home with the grieving parents and the young woman's body in cargo.

Leashes were banned from all the New England resorts I skied at in the 1980s — with good reason. Over time resorts forgot why leashes were banned, so here we are again.

Why has this sport learned nothing from 1970s-80s tragedies?

[Stephen]

@JohnSKepler,

I'm an engineer and have a concept for a binding that could eliminate that envelope. It would be applicable to tele and alpine bindings alike but would likely only be attractive to aficionados. Maybe I'll get time to explore it...

this one?

[WildMidwest]

I saw that video when it posted on April 1st, 2021 – brilliant!

[connyro]

I'm curious what the limiting factor is for you when using leashes. I ski a fair share of aggressive steep trees and cliffs, sometimes with leashes, sometimes without and have never noticed any difference. I've never released from a 75mm tele binding while skiing so I'm not sure what the difference can possibly be.

If the binding never releases, then it's moot. Best wishes in orthopedic surgery.

My reticence with leashes comes from several close personal scrapes, but more notably from a story my lady relates about when she was co-President of her university ski club. She was enjoying her ski trip at Jackson Hole when she was called to pick up the body of a 22-23 year old ski club member who lost control in the Wildcat area of Alta, sustaining a lethal head blow from a ricocheting leashed ski. My lady flew home with the grieving parents and the young woman's body in cargo.

Leashes were banned from all the New England resorts I skied at in the 1980s — with good reason. Over time resorts forgot why leashes were banned, so here we are again.

Why has this sport learned nothing from 1970s-80s tragedies?

Thanks for the best wishes. In 30 years of tele skiing, I've not needed release nor has anyone I've teled with needed release and received an injury as a result of no release, and I'm pretty clumsy. Strap me down in alpine gear and I would most definitely want releasability and ski brakes. I've been lucky but skiing is inherently risky: lots of things can go wrong and cause injury or death. For example, years ago, I witnessed a fatality at my local hill where the victim had been hit by a released ski that struck the victim in the head/neck. The ski brake had not worked correctly. Plenty of people are injured and killed while skiing even if they have the most modern and safe gear.

[WildMidwest]

Plenty of people are injured and killed while skiing even if they have the most modern and safe gear.

Excellent counterpoint which gets back to the discussion about which NTN binding is safest for which skier?

I skied XC since I was four and I count in single digits the number of times I released from my NN bindings. As you note, where a person skis and how they ski can matter more than what they ski.

The danger we are circling is on-resort skiing with bindings that (a) do not release, or (b) release and are tethered (AKA windmill skis).

By contrast, backcountry has a completely different set of risks — avalanche, tree wells, surprise storms, broken gear, fractured bones miles from rescue, dehydration, hypothermia, etc.

[JohnSKepler]

@JohnSKepler,

I'm an engineer and have a concept for a binding that could eliminate that envelope. It would be applicable to tele and alpine bindings alike but would likely only be attractive to aficionados. Maybe I'll get time to explore it...

this one?

Dang! He stole my idea!
Actually, mine is more explosive