-40 wax

[Capercaillie]

I was skiing in -15C to -17C yesterday. Tip to tail Swix White Polar

I only kick wax between the heel of the boot and a few centimeters in front of where the paper test indicates. I tried waxing heel to tip with Swix Polar on two different skis, both double-cambered, 205cm and sized for my weight, and felt no improvement in climbing, even at Swix Polar temperatures. Even if kick wax didn't drag, it's a lot faster and easier to apply liquid glide wax to the glide zones.

According to Zach from Caldwell Sport, for very cold dry conditions, you want a ski with less surface area to reduce drag so camber profile comes into play. This is opposite to the mainstream accepted wisdom that says for cold temps, you should have a longer running surface to help melt a thin layer of snow. I guess there comes a point where it’s so cold, there’s no melting going on.

That would explain why striding on those thin bands of groomed skating corduroy worked so well.

A rougher grind reduces running surface area on hard snow. Fischer advertises their TransNordic skis as having "Speed Grinding 2.0: Reworked universal stone grinding for perfect gliding properties in all snow conditions" and the TN66 as "Designed for expeditions." My TN66 (current season) has a very rough grind, much rougher than Åsnes Sverdrup for example. The lowest temperature I have been out on the TN66 is -24°C, and the glide on rough snow at that temperature was sublime. Who needs grooming when you have a ski like that?

Another thing the TN66 has is long tip rocker. Åsnes Ousland, designed for polar expeditions, is also supposed to have a lot of tip rocker. Is the reduction in running surface area from tip rocker actually making these skis faster at temperatures around -30°C?

Would a short (skate-length) ski with a deep ("klister") wax pocket work well?

Am I just making excuses to buy more skis?

Not rated to -40f, but start green is the extreme cold wax I use.

Thank you for that recommendation. Start doesn't seem to have very good distribution in Canada or online, but I will try to source some. It will be fun to compare cold waxes from all the different manufacturers.

FWIW, I had a gf who lived in Fairbanks back in the 70's. When it got real cold they would use only the pine tar on their wooden skis.

That is very interesting. Today is forecasted to be the last -30 day for a while. I am going to put Rex Universal Tar (rated to -25°C) on the same skis and go to the same place for my early afternoon break and report back.

Hydrocarbon lubricants for -40 temperatures seem to have been worked out pretty well for machinery, it just looks like nobody in the ski waxing business has bothered.

[beeeweee]

Would a short (skate-length) ski with a deep ("klister") wax pocket work well?

You kind of just described the 2023 Madhus Redline Skin ski. It has the same construction as their Redline cold ski but the higher camber profile and shorter running surface of a warm ski with deeper kick pocket for the skin.

I’ve been trying to get my hands on a pair but it seems no one sells them.

That said, I really can’t complain about my current pair of 2022 Madshus Race Pro Skin skis which are very similar in construction to the top end Redline skis. It’s by far my fastest pair of classic skis and works very well in all conditions with reliable kick and better glide than most wax skis.

[Crayefish]

This got me thinking... if one is using kicker skins the whole time (for pulling a pulk), then is any wax needed anywhere on the ski? Glide wax on the non skin portions?

I've got my new skis waiting for me and wondering if I need to do any waxing if just pulling things while skinned up.

[GrimSurfer]

If it were me, I’d do a base prep… if for no other reason than impregnating the base with wax to block the ingress of dirt.

The grip and glide of dirt is all over the map. Our lives and skis are better off without it.

[Jurassien]

This got me thinking... if one is using kicker skins the whole time (for pulling a pulk), then is any wax needed anywhere on the ski? Glide wax on the non skin portions?

I've got my new skis waiting for me and wondering if I need to do any waxing if just pulling things while skinned up.

A bit off-topic, as it relates neither to cold temps nor to glide wax. I was skinning this past April in the Breheimen when the temperature rose to +2°C and my skis started to stick. I found this odd, as I treat the skins with paraffin wax. Removing one ski to investigate I found the skin to be completely free of snow, but the exposed areas of the ski base were balling up. I usually base-prep with special green, but I had been lazy this year and neglected to do so.

The problem was quickly resolved by scraping, wiping, and applying green grip wax. In spite of relatively warm temperatures during the remaining 9 days of the tour the problem did not reappear.

[Capercaillie]

FWIW, I had a gf who lived in Fairbanks back in the 70's. When it got real cold they would use only the pine tar on their wooden skis.

That is very interesting. Today is forecasted to be the last -30 day for a while. I am going to put Rex Universal Tar (rated to -25°C) on the same skis and go to the same place for my early afternoon break and report back.

This did the trick. Thank you for the tip lowangle al. Glide in the tracks, on the groomed corduroy, and off the trail. Not great, but I could keep my usual striding pace. A huge improvement over zero glide Swix Polar. It was only -30°C but I suspect the 2°C difference was not the significant factor. Rex Universal Tar: the ultimate kick wax?

Next things to try would be a polar glide wax and a rough structure.

[beeeweee]

I did a short ski in -25°C today on STAR NEXT Polar liquid glide wax (-10/-20°C) on my Madshus Race Pro Skin skis. It wasn’t quick but I still got a decent amount of glide.

[Smitty]

Next things to try would be a polar glide wax and a rough structure.

I'll be interested to hear your observations on this and how it works out. Your comments on rough structure doing well on very cold snow run counter to waxing advice I've received in the past, and my own observations skiing at deep freeze temps. But I'm absolutely no waxing wizard.

Best luck I have had off trail below -30 C is a relatively cambered ski, hard swix polar PSP glide wax tips and tails, and a short but somewhat thick swix polar V05 kick zone.

Tying that back to the structure - that PSP glide wax sets extremely hard. After you scrape and brush, your structure remains full of the very hard wax. You're essentially left with a perfectly flush, smooth, structureless surface.

As was alluded to earlier, you're below the temps where friction heat would create water at the ski/snow interface so there's no need for water drainage / no concern with suction cupping to slow you down. The polar glide wax provides a perfectly smooth base (negating any inherent structure the base has) so that the hard, cold snow crystals have as few imperfections as possible to grab on to.

Essentially whatever structure the base does or does not have is irrelevant since the glide wax fills and smooths the base out anyway. The increase in surface area by filling up your structure is negated by eliminating irregularities that the snow crystals would hang up on, giving you maximum glide.

That said, my glide is still never anything to write home about at those temps - "good" glide in these conditions is relative. And again, I'm no old hand wax tech, so always interested in others' waxing observations. Especially around better performance at extreme low temps, which can be a good chunk of my season.

[GrimSurfer]

Next things to try would be a polar glide wax and a rough structure.

I'll be interested to hear your observations on this and how it works out. Your comments on rough structure doing well on very cold snow run counter to waxing advice I've received in the past, and my own observations skiing at deep freeze temps. But I'm absolutely no waxing wizard.

Best luck I have had off trail below -30 C is a relatively cambered ski, hard swix polar PSP glide wax tips and tails, and a short but somewhat thick swix polar V05 kick zone.

Tying that back to the structure - that PSP glide wax sets extremely hard. After you scrape and brush, your structure remains full of the very hard wax. You're essentially left with a perfectly flush, smooth, structureless surface.

As was alluded to earlier, you're below the temps where friction heat would create water at the ski/snow interface so there's no need for water drainage / no concern with suction cupping to slow you down. The polar glide wax provides a perfectly smooth base (negating any inherent structure the base has) so that the hard, cold snow crystals have as few imperfections as possible to grab on to.

Essentially whatever structure the base does or does not have is irrelevant since the glide wax fills and smooths the base out anyway. The increase in surface area by filling up your structure is negated by eliminating irregularities that the snow crystals would hang up on, giving you maximum glide.

That said, my glide is still never anything to write home about at those temps - "good" glide in these conditions is relative. And again, I'm no old hand wax tech, so always interested in others' waxing observations. Especially around better performance at extreme low temps, which can be a good chunk of my season.

I do what you do, @Smitty

A textured, or pebbly, surface works in air or on water. Not on snow. Real “no BS” reasons for this, like boundary layer (aerodynamics) or breaking surface tension (hydrodynamics). This is mostly irrelevant on cold snow.

Structure works on wetter snow because there are hydrodynamics at play (suction). That’s it.

I do crazy shit, like use glide wax in the glide zone… or grip wax in the pocket. Follow temperature and new/old snow recommendations closely. I will diverge from these in changing conditions (very low overnight temperatures, plunging temps, shaded valleys etc).

Nothing too novel though… the chemical engineers in charge of setting formulations do so with the benefit of lab testing and cold chambers. Crazy “Davey Crockett” bushman’s lore or the random voices under my mullet don’t count for much on the trail.

[beeeweee]

One thing that I’ve read about from the alpine ski racing side of things but doesn’t seem to ever get discussed is the potential effect of static charges being generated in very cold dry conditions. For alpine ski racing, ski bases are sometimes chosen to reduce the generation of static electric charge as a potential factor that may slow you down. Granted, they are going about 10x faster than the typical XC skier that’s cruising around so I don’t know how much this factor comes into play. The idea is that as your p-tex rub against cold dry snow, it can build up a static electric charge that is then attracted to the polarized water molecules in the snow, which then reduces glide. Some ski base materials and presumably glide wax additives are better at dissipating or reducing the build up of static charges on p-tex.

Maybe it’s a factor when hundredths of a second time differences at 160 mph can mean the difference between a world record or a podium finish. I really can’t speak to the merit of such effects in XC skiing but just thought I’d throw it out there in case someone knows more about this.