What boots to buy??

[connyro]

...But ppl keep confusing speed and control. Speed? Wax ski. Control? Edged ski, side cut etc. Scales, skins not a determinant of control.

Not even close. lol. Wow, that's some serious ignorance. Blowhard.

[Manney]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5895&p=60158&hilit=Klister#p60158

You’re contradicting yourself to launch a personal attack. Not bright enough to remember what you’ve said before, or do you think that the search function doesn’t work on the forum?

Jeez, guy. Must be embarrassing to get called out on that…

[connyro]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5895&p=60158&hilit=Klister#p60158

You’re contradicting yourself to launch a personal attack. Not bright enough to remember what you’ve said before, or do you think that the search function doesn’t work on the forum?

Jeez, guy. Must be embarrassing to get called out on that…

That has got to be the world's lamest counter-argument. In that thread I said that scales work well in those conditions...I did not say that scales are better than smooth skis. Smarten up blowhard.

[Manney]

It’s not a counter argument. Just reminding you of what you said elsewhere.

All of my statements were qualified by conditions. Sometimes scales work great, sometimes wax is better, sometimes skins. You agreed with most of that elsewhere.

But neither wax, nor scales, nor skins will determine weighting and edging, which are fundamentals used to control a ski.

Control, @connyro. NOT speed. NOT grip. Control… the ability to affect the maintenance or change in direction of the ski.

Isn't a ski without any traction pattern easier to control downhill than one with? Maybe waxing for grip isn't ideal for your conditions, though.

Might affect speed a tiny bit. A few % maybe, depending on snow conditions.

Control? Not enough to affect edging, carving. No impact on general weighting of the ski. Maybe some minor pressure impact directly underfoot during a flat turn on very hard, compressed snow if the grip pattern doesn’t penetrate fully.

Likely to be an insignificant impact compared to the other factors (camber, stiffness, side cut, length, width, edge & base tuning).

[connyro]

It’s not a counter argument. Just reminding you of what you said elsewhere.

All of my statements were qualified by conditions. Sometimes scales work great, sometimes wax is better, sometimes skins. You agreed with most of that elsewhere.

But neither wax, nor scales, nor skins will determine weighting and edging, which are fundamentals used to control a ski.

Control, @connyro. NOT speed. NOT grip. Control… the ability to affect the maintenance or change in direction of the ski.

Isn't a ski without any traction pattern easier to control downhill than one with? Maybe waxing for grip isn't ideal for your conditions, though.

Might affect speed a tiny bit. A few % maybe, depending on snow conditions.

Control? Not enough to affect edging, carving. No impact on general weighting of the ski. Maybe some minor pressure impact directly underfoot during a flat turn on very hard, compressed snow if the grip pattern doesn’t penetrate fully.

Likely to be an insignificant impact compared to the other factors (camber, stiffness, side cut, length, width, edge & base tuning).

Control is independent from speed and grip. That's just too stupid to even warrant an intelligent response. lol. blowhard

[Manney]

So you’re saying you lose or gain control with speed? Is that absolutely true? Of course not. You can control your skis standing still. You can lose control of them standing still. You can control your skis at high speed. You can lose control of your skis at high speed.

You can control your skis in low grip conditions (keep skis parallel, turn skis etc.). You can control your skis in high grip conditions. You can lose control of your skis in either low or high grip conditions.

All these statements are true. The veracity of the opposite terms means that control is not determined by grip or speed. Control is a condition onto itself, determined by skier ability.

[connyro]

So you’re saying you lose or gain control with speed? Is that absolutely true? Of course not. You can control your skis standing still. You can lose control of them standing still. You can control your skis at high speed. You can lose control of your skis at high speed.

You can control your skis in low grip conditions (keep skis parallel, turn skis etc.). You can control your skis in high grip conditions. You can lose control of your skis in either low or high grip conditions.

All these statements are true. The veracity of the opposite terms means that control is not determined by grip or speed. Control is a condition onto itself, determined by skier ability.

Your argument is binary: Control or no control. That's not how skiing works. Control is a spectrum without many absolutes. Speed can add or subtract control. Grip can add control (climbing for example) or subtract control (scale/skin drag for example). I'm surprised that I need to explain this to you, blowhard (/s).

[fisheater]

Interesting discussion, the widest scaled ski I have skied underfoot is 78 mm. I’m curious, perhaps @connyro or @lowangle al could answer. I know both you guys ski scaled Vectors which are mid 90 mm underfoot. Are these mid-ninety underfoot slower edge to edge than a smooth ski. I am honestly curious. If anyone else has experience with mid ninety underfoot skis, both scaled and smooth, I would appreciate your thoughts on the difference you perceive in edge to edge quickness.
Happy summer guys

[connyro]

Interesting discussion, the widest scaled ski I have skied underfoot is 78 mm. I’m curious, perhaps @connyro or @lowangle al could answer. I know both you guys ski scaled Vectors which are mid 90 mm underfoot. Are these mid-ninety underfoot slower edge to edge than a smooth ski. I am honestly curious. If anyone else has experience with mid ninety underfoot skis, both scaled and smooth, I would appreciate your thoughts on the difference you perceive in edge to edge quickness.
Happy summer guys

I don't know. I've skied smooth vectors only on groomers and vector bc with scales mostly in the bc and with different boots so I can't really give you a solid answer one way or the other.

[Manney]

Your argument is binary: Control or no control. That's not how skiing works. Control is a spectrum without many absolutes. Speed can add or subtract control. Grip can add control (climbing for example) or subtract control (scale/skin drag for example). I'm surprised that I need to explain this to you, blowhard (/s).

It certainly isn’t binary. Nor is it relational.

More speed doesn’t equal more control… less speed doesn’t equal less control. There is no “perfect speed” for control. There are good speeds for conditions and good conditions for speed, but this is all down to the control a skier has.

Control is entirely separate of speed.

When novice skiers wipe out, they sometimes say that they were going too fast. They’re not thinking through the problem. The issue was that they couldn’t control their speed. They couldn’t modulate speed to say within their limits or they freaked out and did something stupid (control wise) because they got scared and stopped applying the fundamentals of skiing.

Control is control. You can apply the same control to skis regardless of whether you’re going fast or slow… have grip of no grip. The way that the ski responds might be different but it’s still “control” that is determining the outcome.

This explains why amazing skiers can pull off things that seem impossible. Their speed isn’t endowing them with some magical ability. Nor is the level of grip optimal. If these things were true, then their achievements wouldn’t seem impossible. The difference is that their control is transcendent… far beyond what we could achieve in the conditions (which includes the psychological pressure of skiing at warp 11).