Joining NATO

[mca80]

I was not aware Rockefellers and Carnegies had anything to do with eugenics being adopted by the Nazis, though I was familiar with numerous Californian eugenicists that Hitler admired.

I guess I shouldn't say I am surprised by the appointment of Nazis, but rather shocked at how much it contradicts what America was intended to be by those who founded the country.

Will have to look into this Edwin Black, have not heard of him. Thanks.

[Lhartley]

The idea of eugenics was no better illustrated than in covid times. Whether it exists or not within the relationship between the USA and Nazi Germany is a matter of debate, but if covid was a lab escaped virus that preys on the elderly and immunocompromised etc, it's almost certainly been released on purpose to take out those fractions of the population. And which country's kept their borders open to ensure the distribution of that disease? What's the purpose of eugenics? So countries deep in debt don't have to pay out pensions? I wear a pretty tight tinfoil cap, but things make a guy think. I don't know anyone that was hit hard during covid but I heard it was only certain groups and that seems like eugenics if it was lab realeased. Anyways, speaking of eugenics. I live in rural Alberta, and 90 percent of anyone I associate with is conservative and what people consider "right wing" and "far right" and sometimes they even call Albertans Nazis. But nobody I know has any of these "nazi", tendencies so who the hell can be doing any of this bullshit other than the state?

Personal anecdote? My last remaining grandparents passed away alone, in long term care facilities. Not by covid. From what I heard life was not great during those times of isolation. They made it 80 years and then covid happened.

[Capercaillie]

I live in rural Alberta, and 90 percent of anyone I associate with is conservative and what people consider "right wing" and "far right" and sometimes they even call Albertans Nazis.

That last part might be due to all the actual Nazis that the Canadian government smuggled into the country in the 1950s, the majority of whom settled in Alberta, including the grandfather of current Liberal deputy prime minister Chrystia Freeland. Many others (like that SS war criminal Yaroslav Hunka who got a standing ovation in parliament last year, and who Liberal prime minister Justin Trudeau personally invited to a reception for Volodymyyr Zelenskyyy) settled in Ontario.

[Lhartley]

Lol fair point.

[randoskier]

Problem with Nato is it encourages arms production. When a country joins Nato they have to standardize to Nato spec arms, further enriching those arms producers and causing massive surpluses in those countries as they replace supplies to match Nato spec. We are supposedly in a climate emergency (according to the mayor of my home city, Calgary) yet the world is needlessly producing a massive glut of materials because of Nato

That is not exactly true. They move towards NATO standards with future purchases- there are scads of AK47s and Soviet era tanks still in the armies of Eastern countries that joined NATO after escaping the grasp of their Russian slave masters. Finland and Sweden have had full interoperability with NATO for decades so this is not an issue at all. NATO works, it Ukraine had been in NATO there would be no war there right now.

[Lhartley]

Alternatively, if Ukraine was in NATO we would potentially be in ww3 right now. It would be naive to assume Russia would be leveled without interference by nations outside of NATO. Just a thought. I'm Canadian, so mixed feelings of NATO. Was brought up to tale pride in it, but sometimes it feels all wrong

[Stephen]

… but sometimes it feels all wrong

That’s because there are no perfect systems run by perfect people.
Expecting life to be fair and right and just is a recipe for bitter disappointment.
It would require human beings to be fundamentally different than we are.
I don’t say this cynically — I hope for the best in every situation, but don’t like disappointment and stress, so try to accept what can’t be changed.

We’ve already had a world without NATO.
Given how that turned out, I think I would rather live in a world with an imperfect NATO, than no NATO at all.

[Lhartley]

What if an "evil" alter ego of NATO formed? Like axis and allies? Or if NATO didn't exist but a federation of countries existed that didn't include "western" nations. Would it be tolerated globally? Let's say China Russia, Iran and North Korea started an alliance and smaller countries would be enticed to join for safety in numbers aspect, thus further enriching those countries and driving their arms programs. IDK. I think that wouldn't fly so much, that's just me though. I guess the difference is NATO is perceived as righteous, and maybe it is

[Lhartley]

Problem with Nato is it encourages arms production. When a country joins Nato they have to standardize to Nato spec arms, further enriching those arms producers and causing massive surpluses in those countries as they replace supplies to match Nato spec. We are supposedly in a climate emergency (according to the mayor of my home city, Calgary) yet the world is needlessly producing a massive glut of materials because of Nato

That is not exactly true. They move towards NATO standards with future purchases- there are scads of AK47s and Soviet era tanks still in the armies of Eastern countries that joined NATO after escaping the grasp of their Russian slave masters. Finland and Sweden have had full interoperability with NATO for decades so this is not an issue at all. NATO works, it Ukraine had been in NATO there would be no war there right now.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_69269.htm

"To carry out multinational operations, countries need to share a common set of standards – rules or guidelines that ensure mutual understanding and practical functionality – covering everything from ammunition sizes to rail gauges to the words that troops use to communicate with each other."

But it is true. When the country joins NATO it would match up to NATO standards make purchases, modifications etc to its arsenal causing current stocks to be obsolete, redundant etc, where do those go? Sent off to the meat grinder in Ukraine? Recycled? Sold off to black market? Who even knows? Idk, I know as much about it as I do telemarking, which isn't much. But I know the military industrial complex is healthy as ever.

https://www.sipri.org/media/press-relea ... ll-sharply

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 024-01-29/

And meanwhile, while the world is in an arms race, we are being disarmed in Canada. Our military underfunded, our population forcibly disarmed. I think there's grounds for a bit of paranoia, not necessarily towards NATO, just the whole idea that there is serious global instability and we have no faith in our country's ability to defend itself other than well, if we are attacked, all of NATO is attacked. Or Biden will help. Which is in itself a scary thought.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/canadian- ... -1.6815616

[randoskier]

Canada has never been capable of defending itself- huge country, tiny population. I love Canada so I will fight, but I'm old! BTW there are scads of Soviet era Russian T-72s still in use in NATO countries!