SB98/112 or Madshus Panorama or something else?

[powdertothepeople]

Hi friends,

I know both of these skis have been talked about and even compared but I am still having trouble making a decision.
I am a relative beginner when it comes to XCD but am experienced on snow and in downhill skiing. Most of my skiing will be in Colorado probably 75% on ungroomed trails and another 25% on groomed trails. I work at a shop where we rent Rossi BC 100s and those are what I have been using and the only thing I have skied so far.

My main reason for getting my own set up is because I like to have my dog tow me and I also like to be able to turn better for more control. I also want a stiffer boot. I am planning for the Fischer Transnordic BCX 75, but I am not sold on anything so any suggestions are welcome! The three skis listed in the subject are just the three that have caught my eye so far but any suggestions are welcome too. I am 5'9" and 160 lbs. I do not care a whole lot about weight because typically my tours are not all day and I would rather prioritize other things. I know next to nothing so any education is helpful.

Thanks!

[siebznet]

I am also curious on opinions between the two. I have already purchased Alpina Alaska BC's, so limiting my inquiry to SB98 vs Panorama M68.

I have in-track skis, and A/T skis, and these would for the in between. New England (Maine). Expert in-track nordic skier, strong tele skier (I can cut tele turns down an easy groomed blue run on skate skis).

I'm leaning towards the S-bounds because I have read on other threads that they perform better in mixed snow conditions and terrain than the Madshus. Any opinions?

[JB TELE]

The setup you are talking about is excellent for hilly, moderate terrain where you will be making some turns. Especially as a beginner. That setup wouldn't be much fun on a groomed trail. It would be like walking on pavement in mountaineering boots or riding a full suspension mountain bike on roads. It works, but doesn't feel all that efficient or fun. A pair of track skis or some long, highly cambered backcountry nordic skis will feel like running in running shoes on when you hit the groomed stuff.

If you are trying to buy just one ski then you should go wider for flotation. I've skied a Madshush Annum which is an older topsheet (but same construction) of the Panorama 78 and it was the bare minimum flotation needed for most mid-winter Colorado conditions. The Annum was great on soft snow but terrible on anything consolidated or firm. I've heard that the S-bound 112 is a little better on harder snow.

[riel]

Different skis are built for different purposes. The Madshus BC skis, and the Fischer S-Bound are built for turning, which means they have a soft flex, and the fishscales will be dragging like crazy when traveling on consolidated snow. They are great for going up and down in moderate terrain.

If you are looking to cover more distance on moderate terrain, you may benefit from a ski with more underfoot camber and stiffness, which will actually lift the fishscales out of the snow when you're trying to glide. In the Fischer line, the Traverse 78 and Excursion 88 both have a good camber and flex for covering longer distances, while also still having enough sidecut for some turns. Of course, the stiffer flex does make turns a little more involved, but you can get the hang of that fairly quickly.

Only you can decide what kind of terrain you want to ski on, and what the tradeoff between covering ground and turning should be.

I can tell you one thing: buy skis for the snow you have, not for the snow you wish you had.

[fisheater]

If you don’t have to have fish scales, you can go Asnes Falketind or Rabb. They both have poplar/carbon cores, and are much more torsionally stiff than laminated core skis such as M-68 or S-98. The Asnes skis also have the same quality edges you would find on an alpine ski.
I can’t speak to the Rabb, however reports tell me the kick and glide is in the same league as the Falketind X. The Falketind X kicks and glides acceptably. The 45 mm mohair X-skin offers better grip than Fischer scales and it glides acceptably in the warm conditions I use it.
I realize going up and down mountain elevations makes for changing conditions, and a lot of guys prefer scales for that. However you will both grip and glide better on an X-skin. I don’t live in big mountains, my ups and downs are short. I mostly use kick wax. I use the X-skin when I’m dealing with warm snow mostly.

[phoenix]

"If you don’t have to have fish scales, you can go Asnes Falketind or Rabb. They both have poplar/carbon cores, and are much more torsionally stiff than laminated core skis such as M-68 or S-98. The Asnes skis also have the same quality edges you would find on an alpine ski."

I'd be looking for a waxable base if I were getting something for your neck of the woods. Sure conditions change, but you've got big windows of cold and dry weather and snow. And while I haven't skied any of those Asnes's yet, fisheater's suggestion is a good one... I think either Asnes is a better ski than the Madshus or Fisher's (and I am familiar with those).

[Yvette]

I've also been following this thread and am wondering if anyone has opinions on which is the better ski for the Northeast icy conditions caused by the freeze/thaw/freeze cycles that we seem to get. I have telemark skis for serious backcountry turns. And FIscher 78 for general use. But I'm looking for something in-between (definitely waxless because I get tired of klister). I'd use the skis on local single-track mountain bike trails that are connected by icy snowmobile trails.

[Peter P]

Happy owner/user of Asnes Rabb68s in Colorado here. I have a couple different widths/lengths of X-Skins and use them as adjustable waxless bases, with the benefit of being able to take them off entirely for longer downhills.

I started out waxing them, but always felt the wax dragging on the downhills so I started using the X-Skins exclusively. Kick and glide is surprisingly good with this setup.

I use them with Xplore bindings and Alfa Free boots.

[Krummholz]

@powdertothepeople

Another CO skier here. My go to ski is the 98. It does great on trails that get some use. Not enough float in deep powder. I use a 68 underfoot touring ski for that. The 98 has trouble on the corduroy, it is not torsionaly stiff enough to keep an edge, especially in leather boots. Both are mounted 3 pin 75. I use the Transnordic 75 boot most of the time. I had some problems with fitting my high arch feet. I was able to “bake” them for a better fit.

[rongon]

Northeast US forest wanderer here.

IMO... Fish scale bases are great for wandering in the woods, bushwhacking to hunt a few powder turns, but also for getting back to the car as darkness approaches.

I've been skiing a pair of Madshus Annum for years now. The current version is called Panorama M78, and it's the same thing as the Annum, just a different topsheet.

I also had a pair of Fischer Rebound Crown skis; skied them for 16 years. I learned to love those skis. They had enough XC DNA to make tracks from Point A to Point B, but could make nice, long radius turns in soft snow, especially if driven by burly boots like Asolo Extreme or similar. I'd couple those with Garmont/Scott Excursion or Scarpa T4 and make the skis more downhill-worthy, or with Alpina Alaska or Fischer BCX-whatever for better XC kick and glide.

It really depends on what kind of terrain you're skiing.

I've found that the Madshus M62, M68 and M78 are softer flexing than the Fischer Excursion 88, and S-Bound 98 and 112. The stiffness of the Fischer skis makes them more XC oriented but a bit harder to turn. Then again, that stiffness may help in some situations, but for me, the whole point of getting out into the woods is to hunt for the soft snow. Therefore, I personally prefer the Madshus skis to the Fischer skis, even though the Madshus skis are constructed noticeably more cheaply (100% extruded bases vs. the Fischer combination of sintered tips and tails with extruded fish scale section).

I'll bet the Asnes skis are better than either the above. I've only seen them once, and they sure do look nice.

FWIW, I just bought a pair of Fischer Excursion 88 (88-68-78) to replace my Rebounds that I destroyed at the end of last season. I'll be mounting 3-Pin Cable bindings and skiing them with either Asolo Extreme or lower-cut Alico leathers. I can't wait to try those out. I chose that combo for a combination of low angled turns and XC skiing on hiking trails, etc.