3 Pin vs. Rotte Xplore

[timpete]

I am also a 75mm + cable tele skier or a NNN-BC skier, for downhill and exploratory nordic backcountry usage respectively.

The main financial reason I haven't tried Xplore is because of the cost - whenever I'm outfitting a new pair of skis it's because I'm already spending money in an arguably frivolous way (on skis), and is hard to justify a $250 binding, as well as getting new boots, while orphaning your other skis if you love the boot.

From what I hear others say about Xplore, I think if my use case was the type of skiing I dream about, such as long approaches to mellow downhills in the backcountry, I would buy into Xplore. Unfortunately I don't live in such location. I am either skiing mainly in a flat(ish) forrest or skiing down a mountain doing tele turns. So a damn good enough nordic striding binding (NNN BC) and damn good enough downhill tele binding (75mm Voile hardwires) work great for their respective uses.

Curious to hear from Xplore users, do you get stopped by ski patrol / lift attendants at resorts for skiing with a non-braked binding?

[telerat]

You should always use leashes for resorts if you don't have stoppers on your binding/ski. Rottefella makes a specific leash for Xplore, but it has a separate bracket to be screwed to the ski instead of the leash attaching directly to the binding.

@timpete I would not worry about Xplore, as your gear sound well suited for your use. Its strength for skiing is with boots like Alfa Free or Crispi Futura XP Pro when used with the hard flex, and more support is desired than NNN-BC or a pure 3-pin binding can provide. A pair of Crispi Svartisen is a good alternative if it fits, for both NNN-BC and 75mm. A 3-pin cable binding should give similar performance to Xplore, albeit at a higher weight. And Voile hardwire should be more supportive with any suitable boot.

If one is buying both new skis and boots and want to use neither with other gear, one should consider Xplore as it has several advantages that I described in my previous post. I switched to Xplore when my old boots were worn out and I changed the binding on my one pair of skis from 75mm, as well as on my touring skates. It was also partly driven by 75mm not working well for me with the skates. (Regular NNN worked well for skating, but was scary for hiking if encountering ice.) I later added other another pair of boots and skis.

[randoskier]

I don't think there will be much choice in 75mm boots in the near future. They are being replaced by NTN for downhill oriented use, and the Xplore for most everything else, but I think the NNN BC will endure for touring.

I could see Alpina, Fischer, Scarpa, Madshus, all dumping 75mm soon. Alfa will probably always have a model or two. Alico? Always hard to tell if they are still in business (they mostly do govt. contracts). I think it will be hard to find a leather model outside of Alfa and maybe Lundhags.

Plastics? No idea.

Did anyone notice that "Telemark Talk" is quoted on the Alfa website? It is in the description of either the Skaget or the Guard, I think the latter.

[randoskier]

You should always use leashes for resorts if you don't have stoppers on your binding/ski. Rottefella makes a specific leash for Xplore, but it has a separate bracket to be screwed to the ski instead of the leash attaching directly to the binding.

@timpete I would not worry about Xplore, as your gear sound well suited for your use. Its strength for skiing is with boots like Alfa Free or Crispi Futura XP Pro when used with the hard flex, and more support is desired than NNN-BC or a pure 3-pin binding can provide. A pair of Crispi Svartisen is a good alternative if it fits, for both NNN-BC and 75mm. A 3-pin cable binding should give similar performance to Xplore, albeit at a higher weight. And Voile hardwire should be more supportive with any suitable boot.

If one is buying both new skis and boots and want to use neither with other gear, one should consider Xplore as it has several advantages that I described in my previous post. I switched to Xplore when my old boots were worn out and I changed the binding on my one pair of skis from 75mm, as well as on my touring skates. It was also partly driven by 75mm not working well for me with the skates. (Regular NNN worked well for skating, but was scary for hiking if encountering ice.) I later added other another pair of boots and skis.

If you go through the Ice skiing with NNN BC on they will be a bitch to take off unless you have magnums.

[telerat]

If you go through the Ice skiing with NNN BC on they will be a bitch to take off unless you have magnums.

Don't ski on any ice or snow on water, that is not 100% safe, unless you are experienced with and prepared for falling in. Many have died, even very fit skiers.

I would also not use any of the "auto/automatic" bindings if there is even a small change of falling into water. The laces on boots can freeze as well when it is very cold, so I know some going on touring skates bring warm water to thaw in case of falling in (as well as dry clothes and everything else needed to be safe).

An open binding like 75mm, Rottefella Xplore and even Xcelerator or Salomon Pro-link seems like the the best option in such a case, but I have no experience with any bindings freezing. I remember reading about one skier many years ago, that almost perished in bad weather around where I live, and swore never to use NNN-BC bindings or boots again. Rottefella Backcountry Manual and Magnum seems relatively safe to me and I would not be scared to use those, but I have no personal experience with NNN-BC.


Edit: As others have stated in later posts; no ice is 100% safe, it can vary greatly and is always changing. As many Nordic/touring skaters say; "There is no safe ice, only safe skaters". That others have walked or skied across it is also no guarantee. I have skied across ice many times, as well as Nordic/touring skating for some year now, and am beginning to understand more of how ice behaves.

[turnfarmer]

“ On the subjext of XP flexors-

I would like a medium flexor- in between the standard soft, and current hard flexor.”

I think this could be achieved by adding a few more holes or grinding out some material from the bottom of the hard flexor.

[stenu]

I don't think there will be much choice in 75mm boots in the near future. They are being replaced by NTN for downhill oriented use, and the Xplore for most everything else, but I think the NNN BC will endure for touring.

I could see Alpina, Fischer, Scarpa, Madshus, all dumping 75mm soon. Alfa will probably always have a model or two. Alico? Always hard to tell if they are still in business (they mostly do govt. contracts). I think it will be hard to find a leather model outside of Alfa and maybe Lundhags.

I have been told that there has been a growing demand for 75 mm at least in Finland and in the other Nordic Countries too. Due to the climate change related unstable snow problems etc, there has been quite lot of people who are changing from heavier tele and at setups to leathers, 75 mm and ”low angle freeskiing”. Rottefella is pushing XPLOR heavily though.

Crispi did not produce either new 75 mm boots at all or no Svartisens (I am not sure which one it was) for this season but for -25/-26 they will and the whole upcoming batch is already sold to the retailers.

Voile’s marketing is also doing its own part to keep 75 mm wire bindings still a considerable option for more dh oriented leather boot skiing.

https://www.voile.com/blog/xcd-gear-rundown/

[telerat]

“ On the subjext of XP flexors- I would like a medium flexor- in between the standard soft, and current hard flexor.”

I think this could be achieved by adding a few more holes or grinding out some material from the bottom of the hard flexor.

No. The hard flexes I have are made from plastic or very hard rubber that does not flex. They also have holes in them already.

[randoskier]

I don't think there will be much choice in 75mm boots in the near future. They are being replaced by NTN for downhill oriented use, and the Xplore for most everything else, but I think the NNN BC will endure for touring.

I could see Alpina, Fischer, Scarpa, Madshus, all dumping 75mm soon. Alfa will probably always have a model or two. Alico? Always hard to tell if they are still in business (they mostly do govt. contracts). I think it will be hard to find a leather model outside of Alfa and maybe Lundhags.

I have been told that there has been a growing demand for 75 mm at least in Finland and in the other Nordic Countries too. Due to the climate change related unstable snow problems etc, there has been quite lot of people who are changing from heavier tele and at setups to leathers, 75 mm and ”low angle freeskiing”. Rottefella is pushing XPLOR heavily though.

Crispi did not produce either new 75 mm boots at all or no Svartisens (I am not sure which one it was) for this season but for -25/-26 they will and the whole upcoming batch is already sold to the retailers.

Voile’s marketing is also doing its own part to keep 75 mm wire bindings still a considerable option for more dh oriented leather boot skiing.

https://www.voile.com/blog/xcd-gear-rundown/

I ski mostly in Norway/Sweden/Finland and do not see that. I see a massive explosion of Dynafit AT skiing (topptur in Norwegian) in Norway. Even with global warming there is plenty of skiing in Norway and Sweden, where it gets difficult is down in the valleys and lower altitudes during long distance touring, also the season is getting shorter.

[randoskier]

If you go through the Ice skiing with NNN BC on they will be a bitch to take off unless you have magnums.

Don't ski on any ice or snow on water, that is not 100% safe, unless you are experienced with and prepared for falling in. Many have died, even very fit skiers.

I would also not use any of the "auto/automatic" bindings if there is even a small change of falling into water. The laces on boots can freeze as well when it is very cold, so I know some going on touring skates bring warm water to thaw in case of falling in (as well as dry clothes and everything else needed to be safe).

An open binding like 75mm, Rottefella Xplore and even Xcelerator or Salomon Pro-link seems like the the best option in such a case, but I have no experience with any bindings freezing. I remember reading about one skier many years ago, that almost perished in bad weather around where I live, and swore never to use NNN-BC bindings or boots again. Rottefella Backcountry Manual and Magnum seems relatively safe to me and I would not be scared to use those, but I have no personal experience with NNN-BC.

No water is 100% safe. I am well prepared for falling in, and anyone who skis in Norway (or on lakes anywhere) should be!