Light gear does a good telemarker make?

[phoenix]

."..skiing well on a heavy setup is equated to being a skilled telemark skier”

I think you’re misinterpreting what’s been said about “heavy” gear and good skiing. Skiing confidently in good form in varied conditions makes one a good skier.

"I start to wonder how many are actually skiing like Erk here.”

I’m quite certain there are quite a few here who can ski that slope in those conditions at least as well as the guy in the video. It’s relative to what each of us considers skiing well, and to one’s own experience and style. I’m not saying this in a condescending way, but the clip does show a good bit of instability in those few turns. It comes back around to what one considers solid telemark skiing, whatever the gear. He would probably have been more solid on that gear, on that snow, with more wedgy or step turn-ish technique than tip toe tele turns. Whatever turns one skis.

[Lhartley]

I'm not saying it's amazing skiing. I'm saying, I don't actually think many people are skiing big slopes and making telemark turns on light gear. Prove me wrong, post some shit in tele critique

[phoenix]

"I'm not saying it's amazing skiing. I'm saying, I don't actually think many people are skiing big slopes and making telemark turns on light gear. Prove me wrong, post some shit in tele critique”

Whoa, not trying to prove anything to anybody; I think what I’m saying is being misinterpreted, or I could be missing something myself. I fully agree it is extremely rare these days to see gear that light on piste, or more difficult back country. In the 70’s - 80’s skinnies and leathers are what we had, so we skied stuff with them then that we probably wouldn’t now, having options.
After being away from resort tele for 12 years or so, and though I’d been on lighter gear and skiing more meadow skippy woodsy stuff all the while, my skill level had really suffered. So I bought a pass this year, figured. a few runs and I’d be back in the groove. Took more like several days. Those years on light gear did not make me a better telemark skier, being back on a mountain on solid gear got me back to where I was. Time on lighter gear builds technique appropriate for lighter gear; it’s all good.

[tkarhu]

LC, where do you draw the line between light touring equipment and heavy telemark?
I think the T4/Excusion is the at heavy end of light touring, but it also can be considered the light end of heavy gear. Because of the ability to be able to flex and lean your ankles in T4s and Excursions I put them more in the light touring category.

I find T4’s and Excursions are heavy gear because they weight about double (1400+ g?) what my Alfa Guards weight (720 g). And that is for one shoe! Plus the added weight of cable bindings, does it make 1 kg per foot? Without counting the weight of skis…

I had T4’s for a moment… Sold them mostly because they did not fit. Also disliked the weight. The size and weight of T4’s surprised me, maybe because T4’s have the shape of normal shoes and look like such online. And because I had believed experienced guys, when they had said T4’s are light gear

[Lhartley]

"I'm not saying it's amazing skiing. I'm saying, I don't actually think many people are skiing big slopes and making telemark turns on light gear. Prove me wrong, post some shit in tele critique”

Whoa, not trying to prove anything to anybody; I think what I’m saying is being misinterpreted, or I could be missing something myself. I fully agree it is extremely rare these days to see gear that light on piste, or more difficult back country. In the 70’s - 80’s skinnies and leathers are what we had, so we skied stuff with them then that we probably wouldn’t now, having options.
After being away from resort tele for 12 years or so, and though I’d been on lighter gear and skiing more meadow skippy woodsy stuff all the while, my skill level had really suffered. So I bought a pass this year, figured. a few runs and I’d be back in the groove. Took more like several days. Those years on light gear did not make me a better telemark skier, being back on a mountain on solid gear got me back to where I was. Time on lighter gear builds technique appropriate for lighter gear; it’s all good.

Apologies if it felt like I was calling you specifically out. I didn't mean it like that. I just meant it would be nice to see some evidence of folks actually making skis turn, with all the talk of light gear on this forum. I'll just make a lightweight telemark video thread, I don't think I'm going to find what I'm looking for here. Seems everyone is confident in their heavier setups and rightfully so

[Lhartley]

If downhill training on “light” equipment made one a better “Telemark” skier- than all of the world-class Telemark skiers would be doing this.

I keep coming back to this. I don't know any world class telemarkers. Are they generally well rounded or do they just excel in their chosen discipline? Can a telemark racer go out on 110mm planks and ski variable conditions in a challenging backcountry environment? I know alpine racers that absolutely cant. Can they kick and glide efficiently around a nordic center and then pop off into the meadows and make turns on e99's? Then again, lots go on from racing to become amazing all mountain shredders like Christina Lusti

https://youtube.com/shorts/A9tMv21VuA8? ... RUaWAFYUDv

Is Josh Madsen "world-class"?

[lowangle al]

LC, where do you draw the line between light touring equipment and heavy telemark?
I think the T4/Excusion is the at heavy end of light touring, but it also can be considered the light end of heavy gear. Because of the ability to be able to flex and lean your ankles in T4s and Excursions I put them more in the light touring category.

I find T4’s and Excursions are heavy gear because they weight about double (1400+ g?) what my Alfa Guards weight (720 g). And that is for one shoe! Plus the added weight of cable bindings, does it make 1 kg per foot? Without counting the weight of skis…

I had T4’s for a moment… Sold them mostly because they did not fit. Also disliked the weight. The size and weight of T4’s surprised me, maybe because T4’s have the shape of normal shoes and look like such online. And because I had believed experienced guys, when they had said T4’s are light gear

I understand how you feel. The first time I skied my Merrel Ultras my initial reaction was that I could never tour on them because they were too heavy and stiff. But my goal at the time was to have gear I could ski anywhere by learning the T turn. I was wrong about not being able to tour on them, but they weren't xc boots, that's for sure. There is a difference in my stride between xc gear and xcd gear, it's shorter and I ski slower, but I was OK with the trade off. Although my xc experienced changed, the heavier gear helped me achieve my goal of learning Nordic downhill skiing.

In addition to goals it is also perspective that makes me consider the T4 xcd. The term "light" is subjective. After skiing heavy leather boots for 25 years they didn't seem heavy anymore. Then I switched to 2 buckle T2s for a couple years then a four buckle Crispi for a few, then back to a T2 for a few more before getting T4s in 2017. So to me they don't feel heavy anymore.

Merril Ultra 1245g per boot
T4 1320g
T2 1690g

I also have Excusions, they even weigh less than the Merrils at 1230g. They are the lightest boot I've worn in about 35 years not counting xc classic race gear that I only wore on race day. So from my perspective the T4 is "light". Since the advent of xcd and xcd specific gear there are lighter choices out there. I guess you could say there is now light xcd and heavy xcd and I fall (no pun intended) in the heavy category. FWIW I consider all my skis to xc skis, even my 110 mm under foot powder boards when they're kick waxed.

[tkarhu]

@lowangle al Wow that history was an enlightening read! Maybe there is an ultralight trend now in XCD, similar to AT and ski mountaineering on alpine side? Heaviness and lightness really are relative.

[tkarhu]

@Lhartley FYI a quote from an old thread

Skiing with unbuckled boots, or in this case, in walk mode, is a solid and classic instructional technique. Teaches balance and wt. distribution. Try that and also without poles. Good for skill development, and as mentioned, similar to skiing in leather boots.

[greatgt]

Couple decades back for a moment in time we owned Tucks. long high-speed rounded arcs were the game and that's what we played at. And for those who don't know.....A young lady.....whipped her shirt off and I must say, they looked as good as the tracks. Snicker! TM