Not even close. lol. Wow, that's some serious ignorance. Blowhard.
What boots to buy??
Re: What boots to buy??
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5895&p=60158&hilit=Klister#p60158
You’re contradicting yourself to launch a personal attack. Not bright enough to remember what you’ve said before, or do you think that the search function doesn’t work on the forum?
Jeez, guy. Must be embarrassing to get called out on that…
You’re contradicting yourself to launch a personal attack. Not bright enough to remember what you’ve said before, or do you think that the search function doesn’t work on the forum?
Jeez, guy. Must be embarrassing to get called out on that…
Go Ski
Re: What boots to buy??
That has got to be the world's lamest counter-argument. In that thread I said that scales work well in those conditions...I did not say that scales are better than smooth skis. Smarten up blowhard.Manney wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:33 pmviewtopic.php?f=1&t=5895&p=60158&hilit=Klister#p60158
You’re contradicting yourself to launch a personal attack. Not bright enough to remember what you’ve said before, or do you think that the search function doesn’t work on the forum?
Jeez, guy. Must be embarrassing to get called out on that…
Re: What boots to buy??
It’s not a counter argument. Just reminding you of what you said elsewhere.
All of my statements were qualified by conditions. Sometimes scales work great, sometimes wax is better, sometimes skins. You agreed with most of that elsewhere.
But neither wax, nor scales, nor skins will determine weighting and edging, which are fundamentals used to control a ski.
Control, @connyro. NOT speed. NOT grip. Control… the ability to affect the maintenance or change in direction of the ski.
All of my statements were qualified by conditions. Sometimes scales work great, sometimes wax is better, sometimes skins. You agreed with most of that elsewhere.
But neither wax, nor scales, nor skins will determine weighting and edging, which are fundamentals used to control a ski.
Control, @connyro. NOT speed. NOT grip. Control… the ability to affect the maintenance or change in direction of the ski.
Manney wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:37 amMight affect speed a tiny bit. A few % maybe, depending on snow conditions.
Control? Not enough to affect edging, carving. No impact on general weighting of the ski. Maybe some minor pressure impact directly underfoot during a flat turn on very hard, compressed snow if the grip pattern doesn’t penetrate fully.
Likely to be an insignificant impact compared to the other factors (camber, stiffness, side cut, length, width, edge & base tuning).
Go Ski
Re: What boots to buy??
Control is independent from speed and grip. That's just too stupid to even warrant an intelligent response. lol. blowhardManney wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:08 pmIt’s not a counter argument. Just reminding you of what you said elsewhere.
All of my statements were qualified by conditions. Sometimes scales work great, sometimes wax is better, sometimes skins. You agreed with most of that elsewhere.
But neither wax, nor scales, nor skins will determine weighting and edging, which are fundamentals used to control a ski.
Control, @connyro. NOT speed. NOT grip. Control… the ability to affect the maintenance or change in direction of the ski.
Manney wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:37 amMight affect speed a tiny bit. A few % maybe, depending on snow conditions.
Control? Not enough to affect edging, carving. No impact on general weighting of the ski. Maybe some minor pressure impact directly underfoot during a flat turn on very hard, compressed snow if the grip pattern doesn’t penetrate fully.
Likely to be an insignificant impact compared to the other factors (camber, stiffness, side cut, length, width, edge & base tuning).
Re: What boots to buy??
So you’re saying you lose or gain control with speed? Is that absolutely true? Of course not. You can control your skis standing still. You can lose control of them standing still. You can control your skis at high speed. You can lose control of your skis at high speed.
You can control your skis in low grip conditions (keep skis parallel, turn skis etc.). You can control your skis in high grip conditions. You can lose control of your skis in either low or high grip conditions.
All these statements are true. The veracity of the opposite terms means that control is not determined by grip or speed. Control is a condition onto itself, determined by skier ability.
You can control your skis in low grip conditions (keep skis parallel, turn skis etc.). You can control your skis in high grip conditions. You can lose control of your skis in either low or high grip conditions.
All these statements are true. The veracity of the opposite terms means that control is not determined by grip or speed. Control is a condition onto itself, determined by skier ability.
Go Ski
Re: What boots to buy??
Your argument is binary: Control or no control. That's not how skiing works. Control is a spectrum without many absolutes. Speed can add or subtract control. Grip can add control (climbing for example) or subtract control (scale/skin drag for example). I'm surprised that I need to explain this to you, blowhard (/s).Manney wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:34 pmSo you’re saying you lose or gain control with speed? Is that absolutely true? Of course not. You can control your skis standing still. You can lose control of them standing still. You can control your skis at high speed. You can lose control of your skis at high speed.
You can control your skis in low grip conditions (keep skis parallel, turn skis etc.). You can control your skis in high grip conditions. You can lose control of your skis in either low or high grip conditions.
All these statements are true. The veracity of the opposite terms means that control is not determined by grip or speed. Control is a condition onto itself, determined by skier ability.
Last edited by connyro on Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- fisheater
- Posts: 2601
- Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:06 pm
- Location: Oakland County, MI
- Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
- Favorite Skis: Gamme 54, Falketind 62, I hope to add a third soon
- Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
- Occupation: Construction Manager
Re: What boots to buy??
Interesting discussion, the widest scaled ski I have skied underfoot is 78 mm. I’m curious, perhaps @connyro or @lowangle al could answer. I know both you guys ski scaled Vectors which are mid 90 mm underfoot. Are these mid-ninety underfoot slower edge to edge than a smooth ski. I am honestly curious. If anyone else has experience with mid ninety underfoot skis, both scaled and smooth, I would appreciate your thoughts on the difference you perceive in edge to edge quickness.
Happy summer guys
Happy summer guys
Re: What boots to buy??
I don't know. I've skied smooth vectors only on groomers and vector bc with scales mostly in the bc and with different boots so I can't really give you a solid answer one way or the other.fisheater wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:50 pmInteresting discussion, the widest scaled ski I have skied underfoot is 78 mm. I’m curious, perhaps @connyro or @lowangle al could answer. I know both you guys ski scaled Vectors which are mid 90 mm underfoot. Are these mid-ninety underfoot slower edge to edge than a smooth ski. I am honestly curious. If anyone else has experience with mid ninety underfoot skis, both scaled and smooth, I would appreciate your thoughts on the difference you perceive in edge to edge quickness.
Happy summer guys
Re: What boots to buy??
It certainly isn’t binary. Nor is it relational.connyro wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:48 pmYour argument is binary: Control or no control. That's not how skiing works. Control is a spectrum without many absolutes. Speed can add or subtract control. Grip can add control (climbing for example) or subtract control (scale/skin drag for example). I'm surprised that I need to explain this to you, blowhard (/s).
More speed doesn’t equal more control… less speed doesn’t equal less control. There is no “perfect speed” for control. There are good speeds for conditions and good conditions for speed, but this is all down to the control a skier has.
Control is entirely separate of speed.
When novice skiers wipe out, they sometimes say that they were going too fast. They’re not thinking through the problem. The issue was that they couldn’t control their speed. They couldn’t modulate speed to say within their limits or they freaked out and did something stupid (control wise) because they got scared and stopped applying the fundamentals of skiing.
Control is control. You can apply the same control to skis regardless of whether you’re going fast or slow… have grip of no grip. The way that the ski responds might be different but it’s still “control” that is determining the outcome.
This explains why amazing skiers can pull off things that seem impossible. Their speed isn’t endowing them with some magical ability. Nor is the level of grip optimal. If these things were true, then their achievements wouldn’t seem impossible. The difference is that their control is transcendent… far beyond what we could achieve in the conditions (which includes the psychological pressure of skiing at warp 11).
Go Ski