Fischer S-Bound vs Madshus Panorama

[wabene]

One thing that has a surprisingly large effect on the wandering effect on hard snow is a center groove in the bottom. My Panorama M62s don't have it, my girlfriend's Åsnes Cecilies do, and the difference is a very noticeable one. But that's only on hard snow, if there's even a couple of centimeters of soft snow, my 192cm M62s go very steadily.

Very true just a little fresh snow and it's better. I still would like the groove on my M62. I've considered running a router down the ski, lol. Couldn't use a jig so it would be free hand I think. Someone should try that and tell me how it goes!

[lilcliffy]

One thing that has a surprisingly large effect on the wandering effect on hard snow is a center groove in the bottom.

Yes- agree!

[Manney]

Hence the Panorama and the S-Bound. According to my research, they are skis that have the characteristics I am looking for. I understand that everyone has their favorites. Do you all think that both of these skis travel well (enough) on the flats (no wobble) and have good scales?

The Fischer models have grippier scale design.
They all "wander"/"wobble"- you need a long length to try and reduce this.

One thing that has a surprisingly large effect on the wandering effect on hard snow is a center groove in the bottom. My Panorama M62s don't have it, my girlfriend's Åsnes Cecilies do, and the difference is a very noticeable one. But that's only on hard snow, if there's even a couple of centimeters of soft snow, my 192cm M62s go very steadily.

This is precisely what the centre groove is designed to accomplish… first, by helping clear excess water for reduced hydroplaning and and second, by imparting stability along the direction of travel. Base and side angle play a role too (can elaborate on this is needed).

Fun fact: Why do acrylic scrapers come in 3, 4, and 5 mm widths? It’s not because of flexibility because any adult can apply enough force to bend a plastic scraper. It’s because these are the most common dimensions of ski grooves and, when used with care, a scraper can be used to clear wax out of the groove better than the pencil scrapers (which are best used for the first pass after hot waxing).

[André18]

@lilcliffy
Wow! I'm glad to know you love Ste-Rose so much. Do you still come around here often?

Our third child is non-verbal autistic- he needs 24hr care and supervision-
For example- he went outside for 3 hours last night and waded knee deep snow on his bicycle at -20C!!!
Our son is wonderful, and I love being his parent- but, his needs do result in that we are unable to travel as a couple or family. I am very grateful to live in interior rural New Brunswick, where there is limitless outdoor adventures- right from my backyard- and where we get good snow!



I get it. The most important thing is to be there for and care for our loved ones. I wish you all the best.

[JohnSKepler]

Hi all,

...Why do I consider these skis? I mostly ski in quite hilly terrain. The trails on which I ski often have virgin snow or are ski-doo trails. But I mostly use these trails to get in forested areas (mixed forest) where I ski off-track. Then again, it is hilly so I have to do some ascents and descents in many kinds of snow and it can be pretty tight in between those trees.

I already own a pair of Voilé V6 which is an awesome ski when I wanna tackle difficult terrain. It is however too heavy to use daily or to be my go-to ski. I also own a pair of Alpina Discovery 102, which I don't like very much. It sinks deep in powder and is very hard to control going downhill in the backcountry. Whenever I hit a patch of hard snow, I'm in for a faceplant.

This is why I am looking for a ski that floats. I also need good scales (I don't wanna mess with waxing). I do own a pair of full length skins but I don't like to hassle with them as I'm mostly doing short climbs. Therefore, good scales are a must. I don't need a ski that is very fast on the flats as I mostly ski alone. But, I don't want a ski that wobbles on the flats. I have tried a Kom mounted with NNN-BC in the past and it was horrible because it wobbled too much. It was hurting my knees...

Thank you all for reading me and helping me in my quest for the perfect ski.

Andre, you have perfectly described my environment here in Northern Utah, something I've attempted to do but at which I've failed. While I can find steeper if I want it, that's not really what I'm doing. I've been using an Asnes FT62 for this kind of skiing and going down it is wonderful. Going up, I have to stop and put on the skins. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I had been skiing it with Xplore/AlfaFree but switched this year to 3-pin/T4 and I do better. I even like the way they go uphill but I do miss the weight of the Xplore set up. At some point, if my experiment with a binding plate works, and I can find a liner for my F1 boot, I may try that combination with a Transit/F1 and see how that does.

At any rate, I like the sound of that Fischer S-Bound 98. The wide Madshus looks good too but I don't know how much I'd gain over my Voile Objective.

[wabene]

@JohnSKepler, "At any rate, I like the sound of that Fischer S-Bound 98. The wide Madshus looks good too but I don't know how much I'd gain over my Voile Objective."

Yes, I do really like the S98. I learned to turn on it, it turns great. In soft snow it's a blast. I haven't had the luxury of trying a more robust, downhill ski like the Objective or Vector. I'm sure the Objective would handle hard packed groomers better than the 98. If I do encounter a hard, steeper surface I can't pull off tele turns with the 98, but I can easily use parallel turns. There will be some skidding, but it isn't survival mode. I'm almost always using my Svartisen with this ski. Now with the Madshus M78 in that situation, I'd survive my way down to my truck and grab the 98's. The 98 will handle the flats better than the Voile skis and the 78 too. With the Easy Skin I consider it a versatile backcountry nordic ski.

[mca80]

Worst aspects of "capitalism" or whatever you want to call this. Different manufacturers making similar skis with some difference to compete with one another rather than focus on what they do best, and each with proprietary skin connections so you develop brand loyalty but at serious expense. If these folks each did what they do best, and nothing else, and universalized certain elements (which obviously has never been a priority in nordic skiing, nnn vs sns etc), you would have a way more robust product and likely attract more people. Similar to thoughts I saw on backcountry forum re the tech bindings. Maybe they, the people creating the kit, want this division.

[André18]

Hi fellow telemarkers,

When I first started this thread, I said I would post some feedback about my experiences with my new setup. So, I put my hands on Fischer S-Bound 98, 189cm long mounted with Xplore bindings paired with Alfa Skaget boots in mid-february. I don't know about you all, but we had a pretty bad winter here in Saguenay. The weekend before I got my new skis and boots, we had some pretty bad rain which scrapped the snow all over my area. That is, by the way, very unusual around here. And afterwards, it has not snowed for weeks. Last week, we had even more rain. So my skiing season is almost over.

I haven't had the chance to test my new setup extensively. I think I only used them 3 or 4 times, mostly in bad snow. It's hard to tell what I really think about these skis. I must say that I love their camber. They feel much faster than my Alpina Discoverys. When I skied in «deep» snow (10-15 cm), the skis stayed above the snowpack and I felt secure. Lastly, I don't think I put enough mileage to really experiment the turning capabilities of these skis.

I don't have much to say about the Xplore bindings so far. I mostly hope that they are durable.

The Skaget is a comfortable boot. The lacing system is a bit messy. It would be hard for me to explain what I really mean in English. I would simply say that this system is far from perfect, but it is good enough. I am surprised that this high end boot doesn't have a better system.

All in all, I'm glad I bought this ski, binding and boot combo. I'm a bit disappointed that I couldn't ski more this winter to test it. I wanna thank all of you for your advice and tips. I hope winter is good for you all.

[telerat]

...
The Skaget is a comfortable boot. The lacing system is a bit messy. It would be hard for me to explain what I really mean in English. I would simply say that this system is far from perfect, but it is good enough. I am surprised that this high end boot doesn't have a better system.
...

I am curious on what you find messy? I find the lacing very good and can adjust tension both in the lower/front, middle/heel and upper/ankle separately due to the dual set of locking eyelets. I usually have no troubles lacing up any shoe, but I really like Skaget. The extra upper eyelet on the shaft enables lacing for quite a bit of extra support compared to many other boots, and when the leather has softened up I can lace it rather tight for even more support. The only lacing upgrade would be the ball eyelets from Vista for less friction.

Except for the extra locking eyelets it is very standard lacing, but is not a speed lacing system by any means. I would not call Skaget a high end boot, as it it the cheapest backcountry/xcd boot both from Alfa and on the market here in Norway, but prices other places may be different. A smooth surface for snow shedding and a membrane is the only upgrades I would want from such a boot.

I have bought Alfa Free used for steeper tours. It has a very nice, fast and quickly adjusted BOA system with independent tightening of the ankle and lower. Free has significantly more ankle support and is a nice boot that seems to work well for my feet. I hesitated for a long time before buying it though, both due to the high price, less warmth and that it crushed my toes when trying it on in a shop.

[lilcliffy]

Salut André!
Great to hear back from you!
Sorry to hear about your poor snow conditions-
we have had a bunch of rain here as well.
I had some superb "spring" (very early!) skiing conditions here on Saturday, but by Sunday afternoon it was so warm there are now bare ground patches out in the open.
There is still snowpack here in the woods- I am hoping for some more snow to finish out the season!

I haven't had the chance to test my new setup extensively. I think I only used them 3 or 4 times, mostly in bad snow. It's hard to tell what I really think about these skis. I must say that I love their camber. They feel much faster than my Alpina Discoverys. When I skied in «deep» snow (10-15 cm), the skis stayed above the snowpack and I felt secure. Lastly, I don't think I put enough mileage to really experiment the turning capabilities of these skis.

I had my new S98s out on Saturday.
I am very pleased with them as well!
Looking forward to hearing more when you have chance to get out more intensively!

I don't have much to say about the Xplore bindings so far. I mostly hope that they are durable.

I love the XP binding- I too am wondering about longterm durability- especially skiing forest glades...
I wonder how the binding release lever will stand up if/when I hit sticks and branches...

The Skaget is a comfortable boot. The lacing system is a bit messy. It would be hard for me to explain what I really mean in English. I would simply say that this system is far from perfect, but it is good enough.

Interesting- personally, I like the lacing on the Skaget very much. The lacing cleats could be higher quality- but, otherwise I like the lacing very much.

Best,
Gareth