Another waxing question (choosing waxes)

[JohnSKepler]

My wife got me a digital snow thermometer for Christmas this year and I thought I'd give waxing a try again. Two years ago I copped a waxing chart off of here and intended to do more waxing but last year I did more lift-served as I struggled to master rudimentary Telemark technique. With the addition of the thermometer I tried it yesterday and it worked really well. Warm day, around 30 degrees at the trail head, completely overcast, .5 to 2 inches over refrozen base. Using Falketind 62 with Xplore and Lundhags Abisku, full-length base wax Swix Polar White ironed in.

David Mann's waxing chart.

The snow thermometer measured 30 degrees so I went with the Swix Special Violet. It gave me great grip even as the temperature fell in spots that had received shade, or went up in spots that were exposed. It was cloudy, as I said, but we'd had a lot of sun and warm weather. I could detect quite small changes in snow temperature as the grip changed, sometimes piling up snow and at others forcing better (and more complete) weight transfer. In either case the wax worked well requiring alternately a little scrubbing or a little better transfer. There were a few times that it dragged on a slight descent but I could always scrub the snow off with a bit more pressure on that ski - usually the left one.

Cooking thermometer repackaged in Toko yellow.

My question is, should I have gone with the Blue Extra? Piling up is usually a sign that the wax is a little warm for the snow and it prevented the kick and glide I prefer but it was all gentle uphill so not as big a problem. I thought about changing but the Special Violet was getting the job done pretty well, and caused no issues on the gentle descent. What's the protocol at the initial waxing, go a little warmer than the thermometer or a little cooler?

Had a great ski then fell really hard back in the parking lot on a sheet of crystal clear ice under an inch of powder. Really hard. Filled a skin bag with snow and iced my elbow all the way home. Pretty sore elbow and shoulder today but I think I'll be out again tomorrow.

[fgd135]

I think your choice of the Violet Special was pretty good. You didn't say if you had corked it in really well--but a well-buffed wax surface would help prevent sticking in the conditions you describe.
Blue Extra would also work in those conditions, try it next time and see if you notice any difference in performance.

[The GCW]

Before You change flavors, consider buffing in more.

I had a similar situation with Blue V30 today.

It was about a perfect Blue wax day, with 6" new snow & 5" yesterday. 20° when I started out at 10,385' & most of the skiing was on minimal tracked snow. Skied up and across to 11,070' and believe it got slightly warmer even with the elevation gain.

Great kick and pretty ok glide going up and across to where descending would dominate. I noticed a bit much sticking and put up with it although I did take the skis off and removed some snow stuck to the bases.

I was lazy and things were not all that bad in paradise but if I'd have done something about it, I would have buffed the base extra hard and fast, first. I also believe the Blue is a bit too thick and I might have shaved some off. -But it was the right wax.

& go colder if You change if there is sticking and snow building up.

Let's hope a more knowledgable waxer chimes in, though.

[pacificnomad]

In my somewhat limited experience (I've only been waxing since this fall but have skied prob around 40+ hrs since Nov), I find that when the ski base has a layer of Polar kick wax that's corked in, you can expect your selected kick wax to have a larger range of condition specific versatility. For example, I've successfully skied my Ingstad's with a base prep of a single layer of Polar corked in tip to tail and two layers of Swix Blue Extra corked in and skied on 32F fresh snow without loss of kick and great glide. The advantage of using Polar is that you can extend your kick wax of the day up or down your ski, because the Polar acts as a binder, unlike glide wax, but will still glide well.

I've had good results with the following formula: make sure you have a clean base (note on what 'clean' is below), crayon one layer of Polar tip to tail and cork in well. If I'm expecting temp fluctuations during my ski, I'll select a wax that will be on the absolute lower end of temperature that I'm likely to encounter and I'll crayon on a thin single layer and cork it in well. Then I'll select the wax for what the conditions are at the TH, crayon on a single layer and cork it in well. For example: if I'm expecting to ski in fresh snow with temps forecasted to range from say 26-34F, I'd start with Polar tip to tail, then crayon and cork in a single layer of Swix Blue Extra for a total of three boot lengths (a boot length in front of your bindings, a boot length under your bindings and another boot length behind your bindings), then I'd apply either Swix Violet extra or Rode Viola Multigrade on top of that. I think when you have a single layer of softer wax like violet that's been applied over Blue it helps to mitigate icing. It's also important to consider the depth of your skis wax pocket too. for my Ingstads I find that 2 layers of kick wax is completely adequate for a Multi hour outing. Whereas my Asnes USGI's with their deep wax pocket and higher camber require 3-4 layers of wax to achieve the same level of kick. And make sure that you occasionally rough your skis kick base with sand paper!

If I'm expecting warmer conditions for my whole ski outing (snow temp >33) I still do the Polar tip to tail, but will just apply two layers of soft wax like Swix Red Silver or a Multi grade Klister like Rode -6 +6. I think I prefer using Klister vs a soft wax like Red Silver as it just works, great kick and glide.
To clean my bases I just use a beveled putty knife and scrape the kick wax of the day off if I'm expecting to use a harder wax the next time I ski. For the tips and tails I use a nylon brush and brush them clean. I apply a single layer of Polar maybe every 10-20 miles of skiing. For Klister I just put a couple layers of toilet paper over the Klister and use my trusty beveled putty knife and scrape the mess off. Works well and you don't need to use base cleaner.

I suspect that corking in Polar is more effective than ironing. I think there's something about the pressure of the cork that really gets the wax evenly distributed on the bases. And really, corking produces a low amount of heat, a similar amount to ironing in Polar on a low iron setting. Good luck!

[fisheater]

John, I don’t mind a little sticking on the climb up, even in my short, but sometimes steep uphills. As long a a little shuffle cleans them for the downhill, all is good!
I would say your wax choice worked so it was good. Maybe, if you took a break, shine it with a natural cork for less stick (I usually spread with a synthetic cork for better grip). If it was bothering you a quick layer of blue over the top wouldn’t hurt grip, but might not stick.
For me, skiing mostly alone, most of the time I don’t worry about it much. I do like to be in good practice just in case I meet someone on the trail.

[lilcliffy]

Hi John,
Cool thermometer!

For backcountry touring I always err to a colder kick wax (note that I typically have a very hard cold grip wax (ege Swix V05-Polar) on the entire base).

All the old Nordic wood ski tourers that I knew (and still know a couple that continue) use very hard grip wax as a base and then shift their temperature range for kick wax a full range down (up on your chart) (for example- use Swix V20-Green as a kick wax in snow conditions that would require V30-Blue for a track ski with glide wax on the shovel/tail).

I have been using V20-Green for the last 10 days in temperatures that track skiers have been using V30-Blue (and I had a stubborn new skier join me on a BC tour- that insisted on glide and kick waxing- that could not keep up in deep cold snow and steep terrain).

So- my primary advice- if you are going to use hard grip wax instead of glide wax- shift your entire kick wax temperature range one class up on your chart.

Yesterday (and I expect the same this afternoon)- the temperature warmed up to the point of almost melting in full sun- producing some slip when climbing on V20-Green in full sun-
in this situation I lay on a layer of Rex Universal Tar wax over the V20-Green- one and done for the warm part of the day! And removing the Rex Universal (over V20-Green) took seconds at -15C this morning! That Rex Universal Tar grip wax is magic for changing conditions!

Please note that I speaking exclusively of grip/kick waxes here- not klister.

On the comments re ironing vs corking- I find the best results with both→ iron V05-Polar into entire base→ when the wax cools to room temperature- cork/buff with high-density cork. Incredible performance and retention/durability.

Gareth

[Stephen]

Lots of great comments here — wish we had comment emojis…

[JB TELE]

Instead of creating another thread, I'll post on here.
On my Rabbs I ironed in a couple layers of polar and corked in another couple layers as a base to put warmer waxes on top of it. The idea being I could use the polar for really cold mornings and put warmer waxes on top as needed.

I was out a few days ago. It was in the mid-20s, mid-day with mixed cloud cover. Way too warm for polar. I didn't bother putting on warmer kick wax. I was just using full length skins. My assumption was that cold wax in warm snow would glide fine and not stick but it wouldn't grip at all. After pulling skins at the top of the hill I had no grip but at the bottom of the hill I noticed a bunch of snow sticking to the kick wax while the rest of my ski was clean. That explains why my downhill skiing experience was not great. What the heck is going on?

I should note that I have very little experience with kick wax and most of it has been failed experiments.

[The GCW]

JB TELE,

Did You mean, a bunch of snow was sticking to the kick ZONE? -It looks like the entire ski had kick wax...

I can relate to feeling some drag when I'm expecting better glide (at times) and noticing snow caking to the kick zone when I thought it shouldn't.

Made Me think what ever I had in the kick zone was on too thick.

I also would like to hear thoughts on that.

[JB TELE]

Snow was only sticking to the kick zone. I had swix polar on the kick zone and glide wax on the tips and tails.